bleck

[lirazel]

you know what i really hate?

i've recently bought a bunch of new dresses because i desperately needed summer clothes. and they are all super cute and i love them. except that all of them will show my brastraps unless i wear a strapless bra with them.

and strapless bras are REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE. they start out fine but after about two hours they just hurt.

and part of me just wishes i didn't have to wear a bra with them at all. but most of the dresses wouldn't 'fit' right if i didn't or people would be able to tell i'm not wearing one and that is a big no-no.

but the thing is...i do not need to wear bras. some women need them because they make them more comfortable because support and i am glad they can get that support if they need it. but i am very small-breasted and literally the only reason i need to wear bras is because a) societal expectations and b) clothes don't fit right if i don't.

it's all just very frustrating to me, having to wear them. and they're expensive. and even if i wear ones with straps that are much more comfortable, the straps don't stay on my shoulders because i have MICROSCOPIC shoulders so they're always sliding down, which is especially annoying when i'm wearing long sleeves and i can FEEL them sliding down my arms. first thing i do when i get home after taking off my shoes is take of my bra.

i just resent that this is a part of beauty culture that i can't opt out of. i am all for women embracing any part of beauty culture they want and rejecting any part they don't want. i reject a lot of it. i only shave my legs when i feel like it. i don't wear make up 85% of the time (and even when i do it's lipstick and maaaaybe some mascara on special occasions). i refuse to wear heels. i'm fortunate enough that my hair doesn't require much upkeep beyond keeping it washed and cut. i am quite feminine and like to wear dresses and big earrings, but the vast majority of the way i perform that femininity does not require any pain or much effort on my part. buying clothes is always a battle and i hate it, but it's a once-every-bunch-of-months thing, not a day-to-day thing.

BUT THEN THERE ARE BRAS. AND I JUST REALLY HATE THEM. and yet it's completely socially unacceptable for me to not wear them, but it's also completely socially unacceptable for my brastraps to be showing (it's on the dress code for my job--'no visible undergarments' which i get when it comes to, like, no one wanting to see your thong, but my life would be so much easier if i could wear things with my brastraps showing because bras with straps, while still terribly annoying, are much more comfortable than strapless ones).

and i've bought a bandeau bra and i love the way it feels BUT a) i can tell i'm going to have to get new ones regularly because it gets stretched out pretty quickly which sucks and b) i have totally bought into the whole 'your clothes don't look right if you don't have a real bra on' thing and i can't get out of that mindset. like i put on the bandeau bra underneath my dresses and they LOOK WRONG. the bandeau protects me from nipples showing (which i think is all a bra should really be required to do), but that's all it does. it doesn't shape my boobs so they look the way they 'should' in my clothes. and i care about that! even if i don't want to! i feel self-conscious when i wear it with most things because i can tell it looks like i don't have a bra on.

UGH THE WHOLE THING IS SO FRUSTRATING I REALLY HATE BRAS. and i perpetually resent how much easier the world makes it for men to present themselves.

this has been a whiny post of whininess.

Comments

[kwritten.livejournal.com]

THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS! OMG I NEED TO WHINE SO I'M ABOUT TO WHINE AT YOU!

Because I ~hate bras so so so much.

I've been wearing only sports bras for several years now. No clue what my size even is.

Which has never mattered. The nice thing about sports bras - is that they can poke out and just look like a cami or undershirt - no one can tell the difference OR CARE. (Lovely things sports bras.)

But recently, my breasts have been aching. (This is the only word I know.) Just sort of oddly sore like they've never really been before unless I was wearing something too tight.

Which may mean that I legit need a "real" bra. I'm so mad about this I could scream. Bras are uncomfortable. E - I totes get the appeal because they are GORGEOUS, and I'm extremely feminine - but only if I'm extremely comfortable. Which means - leggings under skirts and sports bras and shoes with grips and arch support and everything feels like pj's if I can help it.

I hate my boobs - someone else can have them.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I'm so sorry. That sucks.

Have you ever considered binding? I have a few friends who LOVE it. Probably now isn't the best time for you because of how sore they are at the moment, but if that works itself out, you might think about it? IDK that may not be a thing you'd ever think of, but it works for some people.

I totally don't mind my boobs. It's entirely the bras that drive me crazy. When I don't have them on I'm FINE. But maybe it's because mine are small?

[une-jonquille.livejournal.com]

There are, for lack of a better term, silicone headlight hiders. I have a pair that got a lot of use when I was nursing and bras were too much of a pain.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I honestly might have to resort to that, if I can get myself to deal with the clothes not looking right thing.

[laeryn.livejournal.com]

and yet it's completely socially unacceptable for me to not wear them, but it's also completely socially unacceptable for my brastraps to be showing

wow, this is... curious to me because it's not my experience at all. My brastraps show ALL the time. Hell, some of the clothes I wear reveal a big part of my bra on the sides (when I'm wearing shirts like the gray one but the version where it shows a little less so you can wear it without anything underneath and it'll show just the side of the bra + some skin). It's like, super normal and super accepted here? You make sure that you're wearing a bra with nice straps most of the time (instead of, say, skin-colored ones, but those are mostly used by older women nowadays), but that's okay with me because I actually LOVE bras and LOVE LINGERIE and I could spend my salary on them, so most of my bras are either super cute or pretty sexy (I'm Hoya here -- all for the sexy). Nobody would tell you anything about your bra showing, unless idk you're wearing one of those dresses that have no straps itselves (but for me that is a case of: the whole point of the dress is showing all of your shoulders and cleavage, why would you put something there? imo, as I said). The fact that it's completely socially unacceptable that your brastraps show sounds super weird to me! Comes to show how different things are in different places, huh.

Re: not wearing bra, I think it's less common here. Brastraps showing? Every woman walking down the street (exaggeration but you get my point). Not wearing bra? Not so common, but idt it's looked down upon/frown upon? I've seen quite an amount of women not wearing bra. And I've seen some get blacklash for it, usually women that have BIG breasts and wear no bra. Which is totally their right by the way. But when a girl with little breasts/well put breasts does it there's usually a feeling of "whatever, her choice" or "oh lucky girl I wear I'd had those instead of these", lol. So yeah, it's not totally looked down amongst young people, although I'm pretty sure it's not something you'd do to go to your job, tbh. THAT may be a problem and in general, as I said, it's quite less common.

This is, of course, all based on my own experience, so others' might be different? But yeah, brastraps are generally okay here unless you're wearing the grandma kind of bra or you're from the Royal family lmfao, but in all honesty then it becomes just about finding a way of attacking/criticizing famous people and I AM RAMBLING NOW.

Anyways, it sucks for you :( I like bras. I am super uncomfortable if I don't wear them and wearing them makes me feel confident too (I do not like my breasts, tbh? They're like FALLING and I AM TWENTY TWO COME BACK UP HERE NOW // tmi). I love lingerie too sooooo I don't think I'd ever stop wearing them, lol, but it really sucks that people who find it uncomfortable have to wear them just because. Same with shaving and everything else. If you don't want, you shouldn't have to! ARG!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a cultural thing. It's totally inappropriate at work for any kind of underwear to be showing. Walking around on the street it matters less, but my mama would be HORRIFIED if she saw me. She freaks out if she can tell I'm not wearing a slip. And if I didn't wear a bra at all, I would TOTALLY get judgmental stares from people on the street. And at work I'd be asked to put one on, I know that.

I don't have any 'cute' bras because I can't find any that actually do anything that are cute and comfortable and also not too expensive. The ones I can afford don't seem to do anything but look cute--they don't actually provide any support or anything at all, so you might as well not be wearing one (also lace ITCHES--I have sensitive skin, so any kind of decoration tends to itch). Plus, no one's ever going to see my bras but me so I don't really feel any reason to wear cute ones; I'd rather wear comfortable ones. Most of mine are flesh-colored because I don't want them to show through thinner/lighter clothing, and I can't reconcile spending lots of money on other colored ones when I can just wear the flesh-colored ones under anything.

But it must be nice living in a place where you can wear them visible/not wear one at all. *wistful sigh*

[vergoldung.livejournal.com]

that's okay with me because I actually LOVE bras and LOVE LINGERIE and I could spend my salary on them, so most of my bras are either super cute or pretty sexy
asDLMajmld a fellow bra-lover :') let me be super rude and barge into this thread because you feel me and I am nodding along to everything. Also, fellow bra-lover okay.

Comes to show how different things are in different places, huh.
Yep, so much word. Everything this comment, tbh. It's completely absurd to me that anybody could get backlash for brastraps showing. Highly formal settings, I might think about being careful (but mostly, I'll prob just cover up my shoulders anyway, so it's not really a question...) but otherwise?? I mean, there are so many clothes that have risk of bra-showage in today's fashion, it's completely ridiculous to be so strict about it. Like, I'm thinking of all the wide cleavage pullovers that you can wear just like that or with a tank top underneath. It's not like you purposefully try to get the straps to show, but really I don't think I ever put any deep thought into it, while I'm sure they must be showing quite often! But yeah, cultural differences...

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

Frustrating! The big fuss about bra straps is one of those microaggressions that just chaps my ass every time. HIDE YOUR GROSS WOMANITY AND BE QUIET ABOUT IT. Especially since yeah, bras are far from necessary.

(You might have more options than a strapless for anything other than a strapless dress? I don't want to be all HERE IS A TON OF UNSOLICITED ADVICE but I know most of the tricks if you want, lol.)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yes, the fact that we're expected to wear them but that they can never be showing but if you wear things that cover up TOO much you're a giant prude and people will make Amish jokes...it's like the whole 'you have to wear makeup to make your face flawless but you can't LOOK like you're wearing makeup!' except even worse because your boss won't tell you to wear makeup (most of the time) but they absolutely will tell you not to have your brastraps showing.


I have a bunch of spaghetti sprap dresses that I LOVE, but they're the ones that are most of the problem. I can't wear strapless dresses, really because they all end up riding down. But yeah, if you know any tricks, please do share!

[youcallitwinter.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, as much as I enjoy the idea of pretty bras, I hate them in actuality, mine is chafing me RIGHT NOW. And tbqh, in a country as culturally conservative as mine, even talking about this would be unacceptable. But yeah, since I live/grew up in in the metropolitan part, it's generally acceptable that in college, at least, bra-straps can show a little (except they don't, because mostly nobody wears dresses etc., because this country, not to mention how much you get stared at, and how uncomfortable everything is, if you're dressed even a little sexy. It's absolutely horrible. I'm pretty sure my city is one of the 4 or 5 where girls even dare to wear shorts). But yeah, in a workplace, it'd be like NOPE, YOU'RE FIRED.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know! I like to look at pretty bras! But either they're too expensive or they don't actually provide support so what's the poitn of wearing them or they are uncomfortable! BRAS SUCK.

Do you mind if I ask where you live? It's totally fine if you don't want to say, but I'm always curious about where people come from.

[elisi]

Could you maybe wear a tiny bolero with the dresses - it'd cover your shoulders (and bra-straps), and if it was the right colour could even compliment the dress?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I wear a lot of cardigans at work, which takes care of the problem there, but outside of work I tend to not like to do that because I get hot? But it is a solution sometimes!

[snickfic]

This does not in the least solve your present problems, but when bra straps showing isn't so much an issue, bras that clasp in front instead of in back can be really helpful for people with slim/narrow shoulders. The straps don't fall down! Instead of the straps being parallel to your arms, they angle in towards the claps between your boobs, so they don't slip off.

I am sorry for all your bra difficulties. :( That does sound like a really difficult environment to be a woman in, finding bras that are clearly *there* but that you can't actually see - BLEAH.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

WHAT. I never knew that! I mean, I knew they were front-clasping but it I didn't know that would keep the straps from falling down. Awesome!

That does sound like a really difficult environment to be a woman in, finding bras that are clearly *there* but that you can't actually see

That sums it up perfectly. Thanks.

[silverusagi]

Someone already mentioned the silicone things. My sister got some of those to wear with dresses.

Though dresses with the padding/shaping built in is the way to go, IMO. No worries, no problems.

For me, the Victoria's Secret Showstopper multi-way bra works, but that's me. But basically, I wore sports bra(ish) bras for years, by Barely There. I just didn't buy anything with any sort of wide neck on it at all, or low cut at all because sports bras don't work with those. I think I avoided buying a 'real' bra until about two or three years ago, because I could never find one that I could stand. And out of all the VS bras, the Showstopper is the only one that I like. Which has led to a bit of a problem, because I've bought more of them than I should, but I KNOW they'll eventually stop making that line, and I need to be prepared, lol, for like the rest of my life. Anyway. Also, if you want to try a more expensive bra, like VS, if you go and try them on, you can then probably find ones on ebay for less, that are returns or seconds. I've bought a lot off there.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Though dresses with the padding/shaping built in is the way to go, IMO

They are my favorite, though I'm finding them hard to find. The ones I do have I RAVE over.

Oh, God, I feel you on the 'must buy enough for a lifetime supply' thing! I am like that about everything. I've been wearing the cutest yellow flats lately and they go with everything, and I'm like, "I need to go buy like twelve pair to last me forever!"

if you go and try them on, you can then probably find ones on ebay for less, that are returns or seconds. I've bought a lot off there

I would never have thought of that! Thank you so much!

[vergoldung.livejournal.com]

OMG MY BOOBS/BRA FEELINGS HOLD THEM OK I'VE BEEN HAVING SO MANY OF THEM LATELY AND NOW YOU MAKE THIS POST AND UHUHUHU HOW COULD I EVER STAY AWAY

So I suppose I'm the crazy bra-lover around town. Social conditionning worked very well on me, you see. No, but joke aside, I have more fancy bras than it is healthy to own AND NOW THERE ARE ALL KIND OF TOO BIG FOR ME AND I AM HEARTBROKEN WHY IS THIS MY LIFE. MY BABIES. ABANDONNED IN THE UNDERWEAR DRAWER. NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS OKAY. /sobbing but I will spare you the true extent of my grief

Also, I just spent like one hour researching lingerie vocab on the internetz. And either I am super bad at finding translation (which, is a possibility one should not exclude too hastily) OR English has a massive lack of lingerie vocab. IDK BUT SOMEBODY HELP ME EXPRESS THE THINGS THAT I WANT TO EXPRESS THIS IS SUPER FRUSTRATING.

Anyway, since I think our bra cup size is similar enough, I rambled on and on about things I do (or think about doing) sometimes when facing this very problem. In a second comment because once I get started, I cannot shut up. Sigh.

[vergoldung.livejournal.com]

So, you aren't allowed to be showing any brastraps (what the actual fuck I do not comprehend) and strapless bras are often uncomfortable (I feel datz, bb) and you're worried that a classic bra would slip down during the day without its straps.

If you have one or two spaguetti strap dresses you really love and wish you could wear whenever/wherever because they are favorites, you could consider sewing bra cups inside the dress. This may sound a little complicated if you don't make a habit out of sewing, but it's really not all that complicated, I promise! If you have an old bra (maybe one that's a little used up?) that you'd be willing to sacrifice for it of course.

(And if you don't like sewing, maybe you know somebody who can help?)

If you fixate the bra to the fabric of your dress you're making it almost impossible for the bra to slip (hence, it also doesn't need to be as tight anymore - should you keep the entire bra structure and not just the cups). Now if your only working with cups, then I think sowing makes the most sense. You can fixate them in a way that is comfortable for you to "fit into" while also benefitting from the bra-shape when it comes to your figure since the dress will fit around the cups as if you were wearing a normal bra. This might be a good option for a dress that's tight fitting around the chest or made out of streching fabric.

If it's looser and/or thin cotton material, you could consider only sewing in key points of the bra (and keeping the entire structure, save for the straps). The good thing about that is that you'll still have the feeling of a fitted bra, without the risk of it moving around too much because it'll be maintained by the rest of the dress. Several friends of mine have done this for party dresses that had a tricky sleave/back/cleavage thing happening. If it's done well, you should be able to ~unsew the bra out of the dress - should you want to retrieve either one.

And if this is something that works for you could even create a whole recyclable system of bra-to-dress-attaching! So instead of having to sacrifices several bras for each new dress you want to be wearing like this, you could pick one that you customize with press buttons/snap fastners (translator is failing me :|). Basically you have your one "bra-for-spaguetti-dresses" that you can wear with any dress provided you sew in the needed mirror buttons inside.


Another thing you could try out, are what is called "guépière" in French (seriously, I have just searched this internet for twenty minutes and I have no idea how to call it in English). If you don't like tight clothes around your stomach/bach, then this might not be for you. Also, until now I've only seen guépières out of synthetic material and even though I'm sure it could be made out of cotton, I have yet to find one. So, just a fair warning, if synthetics aren't your thing. (Here is one that is so lovely I am crying all the tears that I don't have the money for it.)

It's basically a light (very very light) form of corset, that is meant exclusively as underwear. The point is to have the general aesthetic of a corset, not the mechanics. So aside from the bra cups, there are no metal/plastic braces whatsoever. The back isn't tied either, it works just like a classic bra, except all the way down to your waist. This means that unlike your common strapless bra, it will take a lot more for it to move, let alone slip down. Personally, I never had any problem of slip, depsite being in everyday movement situations (so I wouldn't work out with it, but otherwise you should be totally secure).

This is what I like best, when I'm wearing something I don't want any brastraps with. Much like laeryn, I usually have no reason to in normal settings, so it's more for fancy dressing and when I want to wear bustier things - which is often. (Again, why can't I find a translation for "bustier"?!? This distresses me because #things of importance).

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry your fancy bras don't fit anymore!

OR English has a massive lack of lingerie vocab

Pretty sure we borrow any of it we actually have from the French anyway, so...I'm guessing that's the answer.

[une-jonquille.livejournal.com]

Okay, I checked Tomato Nation, which frequently takes bra questions, and found a relevant answer here and maybe also here.

[shamoogity.livejournal.com]

Whoa, I forgot all about Tomato Nation! Sorry, carry on. That was just a blast from the past.

[shamoogity.livejournal.com]

I feel like this is my most frequent comment to you, but I seriously could have written this! Like, the entire thing. My mom always tells me I just shouldn't wear one because she's European and also grew up in the '60s/'70s when a lot of women just didn't bother. I just can't bring myself to do it. It's like what we think of as a "normal" female body is bra-shaped one, which is depressing.

[gingerwall.livejournal.com]

I had no idea that strapless bras universally sucked - I thought it was just because I had big boobs.

(Side not of bra whining: Victoria's Secret and most department stores don't carry my size, so I have to go to a specialty store and end up paying $70-$110 per bra. Since I buy most of the rest of my clothes at goodwill, that's literally like 35 shirts/pants worth of clothes for each bra. Ugh.)

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

omg, flat chests unite~~~~

yeah. i really have nothing useful to add but i endorse your "whine" (NOT WHINY AT ALL TBH BECAUSE SOCIAL EXPECTATIONS FOR WOMEN SUCK!!!!!!111!). social perception of breasts is weird. taking care of breasts is weirder. this has been a comment.

[(Anonymous)]

This might be a useless suggestion but it might be helpful? There's a thing you can buy that like clips on the back of your bra where the shoulder straps are and pulls them together more? Like here's one type -

http://www.lindasonline.com/the-strapper-bra-strap-converter-original.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=the-strapper-bra-strap-converter-original&Size=OS&gclid=COnH5u2opLgCFZSi4AodXkgAKg

and here's another type - http://www.lanebryant.com/cacique-plus-size-sexy-bras-intimate-apparel/view-all-bras/bra-lingerie-accessories/clear-bra-strap-holder/4043c4044c1605p31394/index.pro?sid=PS:LB:pla&mcid=PPC&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=31394-87255900034&cid=cUt8VjsH_dc|pcrid|13806853722|pkw||pmt||&gclid=CKnXipKppLgCFciY4AodFw8A4g
(and i know you aren't plus size but it's just a different type on the same idea)

more or less it keeps your bra straps from falling down and also pulls them back so if your dress is sleeveless? it may keep them from showing.

Just a thought.