lirazel | bleck

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bleck

you know what i really hate?

i've recently bought a bunch of new dresses because i desperately needed summer clothes. and they are all super cute and i love them. except that all of them will show my brastraps unless i wear a strapless bra with them.

and strapless bras are REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE. they start out fine but after about two hours they just hurt.

and part of me just wishes i didn't have to wear a bra with them at all. but most of the dresses wouldn't 'fit' right if i didn't or people would be able to tell i'm not wearing one and that is a big no-no.

but the thing is...i do not need to wear bras. some women need them because they make them more comfortable because support and i am glad they can get that support if they need it. but i am very small-breasted and literally the only reason i need to wear bras is because a) societal expectations and b) clothes don't fit right if i don't.

it's all just very frustrating to me, having to wear them. and they're expensive. and even if i wear ones with straps that are much more comfortable, the straps don't stay on my shoulders because i have MICROSCOPIC shoulders so they're always sliding down, which is especially annoying when i'm wearing long sleeves and i can FEEL them sliding down my arms. first thing i do when i get home after taking off my shoes is take of my bra.

i just resent that this is a part of beauty culture that i can't opt out of. i am all for women embracing any part of beauty culture they want and rejecting any part they don't want. i reject a lot of it. i only shave my legs when i feel like it. i don't wear make up 85% of the time (and even when i do it's lipstick and maaaaybe some mascara on special occasions). i refuse to wear heels. i'm fortunate enough that my hair doesn't require much upkeep beyond keeping it washed and cut. i am quite feminine and like to wear dresses and big earrings, but the vast majority of the way i perform that femininity does not require any pain or much effort on my part. buying clothes is always a battle and i hate it, but it's a once-every-bunch-of-months thing, not a day-to-day thing.

BUT THEN THERE ARE BRAS. AND I JUST REALLY HATE THEM. and yet it's completely socially unacceptable for me to not wear them, but it's also completely socially unacceptable for my brastraps to be showing (it's on the dress code for my job--'no visible undergarments' which i get when it comes to, like, no one wanting to see your thong, but my life would be so much easier if i could wear things with my brastraps showing because bras with straps, while still terribly annoying, are much more comfortable than strapless ones).

and i've bought a bandeau bra and i love the way it feels BUT a) i can tell i'm going to have to get new ones regularly because it gets stretched out pretty quickly which sucks and b) i have totally bought into the whole 'your clothes don't look right if you don't have a real bra on' thing and i can't get out of that mindset. like i put on the bandeau bra underneath my dresses and they LOOK WRONG. the bandeau protects me from nipples showing (which i think is all a bra should really be required to do), but that's all it does. it doesn't shape my boobs so they look the way they 'should' in my clothes. and i care about that! even if i don't want to! i feel self-conscious when i wear it with most things because i can tell it looks like i don't have a bra on.

UGH THE WHOLE THING IS SO FRUSTRATING I REALLY HATE BRAS. and i perpetually resent how much easier the world makes it for men to present themselves.

this has been a whiny post of whininess.

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and yet it's completely socially unacceptable for me to not wear them, but it's also completely socially unacceptable for my brastraps to be showing

wow, this is... curious to me because it's not my experience at all. My brastraps show ALL the time. Hell, some of the clothes I wear reveal a big part of my bra on the sides (when I'm wearing shirts like the gray one but the version where it shows a little less so you can wear it without anything underneath and it'll show just the side of the bra + some skin). It's like, super normal and super accepted here? You make sure that you're wearing a bra with nice straps most of the time (instead of, say, skin-colored ones, but those are mostly used by older women nowadays), but that's okay with me because I actually LOVE bras and LOVE LINGERIE and I could spend my salary on them, so most of my bras are either super cute or pretty sexy (I'm Hoya here -- all for the sexy). Nobody would tell you anything about your bra showing, unless idk you're wearing one of those dresses that have no straps itselves (but for me that is a case of: the whole point of the dress is showing all of your shoulders and cleavage, why would you put something there? imo, as I said). The fact that it's completely socially unacceptable that your brastraps show sounds super weird to me! Comes to show how different things are in different places, huh.

Re: not wearing bra, I think it's less common here. Brastraps showing? Every woman walking down the street (exaggeration but you get my point). Not wearing bra? Not so common, but idt it's looked down upon/frown upon? I've seen quite an amount of women not wearing bra. And I've seen some get blacklash for it, usually women that have BIG breasts and wear no bra. Which is totally their right by the way. But when a girl with little breasts/well put breasts does it there's usually a feeling of "whatever, her choice" or "oh lucky girl I wear I'd had those instead of these", lol. So yeah, it's not totally looked down amongst young people, although I'm pretty sure it's not something you'd do to go to your job, tbh. THAT may be a problem and in general, as I said, it's quite less common.

This is, of course, all based on my own experience, so others' might be different? But yeah, brastraps are generally okay here unless you're wearing the grandma kind of bra or you're from the Royal family lmfao, but in all honesty then it becomes just about finding a way of attacking/criticizing famous people and I AM RAMBLING NOW.

Anyways, it sucks for you :( I like bras. I am super uncomfortable if I don't wear them and wearing them makes me feel confident too (I do not like my breasts, tbh? They're like FALLING and I AM TWENTY TWO COME BACK UP HERE NOW // tmi). I love lingerie too sooooo I don't think I'd ever stop wearing them, lol, but it really sucks that people who find it uncomfortable have to wear them just because. Same with shaving and everything else. If you don't want, you shouldn't have to! ARG!

Edited 2013-07-02 16:22 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a cultural thing. It's totally inappropriate at work for any kind of underwear to be showing. Walking around on the street it matters less, but my mama would be HORRIFIED if she saw me. She freaks out if she can tell I'm not wearing a slip. And if I didn't wear a bra at all, I would TOTALLY get judgmental stares from people on the street. And at work I'd be asked to put one on, I know that.

I don't have any 'cute' bras because I can't find any that actually do anything that are cute and comfortable and also not too expensive. The ones I can afford don't seem to do anything but look cute--they don't actually provide any support or anything at all, so you might as well not be wearing one (also lace ITCHES--I have sensitive skin, so any kind of decoration tends to itch). Plus, no one's ever going to see my bras but me so I don't really feel any reason to wear cute ones; I'd rather wear comfortable ones. Most of mine are flesh-colored because I don't want them to show through thinner/lighter clothing, and I can't reconcile spending lots of money on other colored ones when I can just wear the flesh-colored ones under anything.

But it must be nice living in a place where you can wear them visible/not wear one at all. *wistful sigh*

Oh, here they are all about the same price if you've got one of the usual sizes. Around 15€ (it's a bit less in $ I think?) all of them, flesh colored, cute or sexy. I do not wear lace, though, for the most part, because I am not a fan. Just nice designs/patterns. BUT I wanted to clarify that I don't wear nice or sexy bras because anyone is going to see them (nobody is going to, anyways, because I haven't dated anyone in three years so: impossible, lol), but because I like them and I like to know I am wearing them. I don't choose my lingerie for others, but for me, just like all of my socks are super cute in spite of the fact that nobody's going to see them.

Bras showing through lighter clothing isn't a problem here either, actually D:

Oh, see here bras are expensive if you want well-made ones (you can get cheap ones at Target or whatever, but they're not nearly as nice as the good ones) and if you want one that's not basic nude/white/black you have to pay more. Plus, I don't have a normal-range size, so it's really hard for me to find cute ones.

And oh, sure! I know lots of ladies who wear cute lingerie for them! I just don't do it myself.

Bras showing through lighter clothing isn't a problem here either, actually

THAT WOULD BE AMAZING I'M JEALOUS.

Damn, that sucks! I would hate it :( the super expensive here are the ones for big, big sizes. They do have problems finding them. My friend R has A SUPER BIG SIZE (level: her back hurts) and they are indeed super expensive.

HAHA. I mean, you wouldn't be showing the bra if you were going to a trial or a job interview BUT out in the streets on your daily life? Pretty okay. And at night it's really common. The trend this season are semi-transparent backs in the t-shirts, so you can imagine. It can be considered really sexy too. (While when I was a kid it was "tasteless". Things change super fast). I actually like it because I can show off my great taste in lingerie, tsk.

Yeah, it's tasteless here. And yet you go into stores and there are so many cute tops/dresses that are cute in such a way that it's impossible to wear a bra without it showing. But it can't show! People will think you're white trash! But if I don't wear a bra with one, that's inviting judgmental stares/comments. So there's a whole world of fashion I just cannot wear and I'm not sure WHO is wearing it. Maybe people in less conservative parts of the country?

Maybe people in less conservative parts of the country?

Yes, maybe. Idk much about the States but you're from the... South, right? Idk, I must admit that, idk what's the image people have of my country in other places, but I wouldn't call it conservative. We've got a monarchy and a bunch of conservative people (most of them, quite extreme right wing assholes that still think gay marriage should be eliminated even though it's been EIGHT YEARS AND EVERYONE JUST SHRUGS AT IT, HELL, BECAUSE NOBODY CARES ANYMORE) but in general I think we've become pretty the-opposite-of-conservative (word I cannot remember now). Totally OT, but because we started our modernization years later than most of Europe because of the dictatorship, we started doing it at a faster pace and in some aspects that trend has remained.

(Totally, totally OT lmfao I know. Sorry!)

Yup, the South, the Bible Belt. It's much more conservative culturally and politically than the Coasts.

Liberal! That's the word! Or progressive. :D

No, that's cool, I like hearing about other countries a LOT. I don't think most USAmericans think much about Spain (other than right now we know you're having a lot of economic problems and high unemployment) and most of our stereotypes are like, bull running and flamenco dancing and stuff that's got nothing to do with what Spain is like right now. We tend to be woefully ignorant about other countries. It's really sad.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Mostly from election periods and things like that, you usually gather some info about the trends in the different states from USA. We get lots of coverage, since your politics affects everybody else's.

Oh, right! Thanks xD

(Well, that is true. And damn, idt we're getting out of this before I turn 30yo at least tbh). Yeah, I know. Like, Europeans think the same about us, even though flamenco is actually mostly a thing from the South (and that's it) and bull fighting is even forbidden in some places right now (my region of origin, Cataluña). But I think it happens everywhere, lol. Even with the States, which is a place that we're constantly exposed to around the world, there are very heavy stereotypes that remain over the fact that it's SUCH A BIG PLACE with very different things. Sad indeed :(

My friend R has A SUPER BIG SIZE (level: her back hurts) and they are indeed super expensive.

Sorry for butting in, but I have a hint that your friend could use. Tell her to look for bras on British ebay. There are many shops that sell brand new bras half-price; either old collections, or bras with tiny production errors that are invisible for human eye, or barely visible. I'm plus-size (32K), and I'm usually able to buy a bra for 10-15 pounds + postage.

Don't be sorry at all! More like thank you for the info, I will definitely tell her :D!

that's okay with me because I actually LOVE bras and LOVE LINGERIE and I could spend my salary on them, so most of my bras are either super cute or pretty sexy
asDLMajmld a fellow bra-lover :') let me be super rude and barge into this thread because you feel me and I am nodding along to everything. Also, fellow bra-lover okay.

Comes to show how different things are in different places, huh.
Yep, so much word. Everything this comment, tbh. It's completely absurd to me that anybody could get backlash for brastraps showing. Highly formal settings, I might think about being careful (but mostly, I'll prob just cover up my shoulders anyway, so it's not really a question...) but otherwise?? I mean, there are so many clothes that have risk of bra-showage in today's fashion, it's completely ridiculous to be so strict about it. Like, I'm thinking of all the wide cleavage pullovers that you can wear just like that or with a tank top underneath. It's not like you purposefully try to get the straps to show, but really I don't think I ever put any deep thought into it, while I'm sure they must be showing quite often! But yeah, cultural differences...

You're not rude! It's awesome! I feel super lonely in the bra-lovers land! I'd have many more bras if I had the money, damn it. I'm after this one blue laced bra without straps that I saw the other day and can't find anymore. Super pretty! And this is the story of my life, lmao. But really, there are such nice things out there ;___;

Yeah, highly formal settings IA with you. And summer fashion? Most of it involves bra-showage nowadays, let's face it, especially depending on what style you're used to wear! I have many many clothes that show my bras and I can't even wrap my mind around the idea of having to hide them either, omg.

Where are you from, btw? Is it weird that I want to add you as a friend after this comment and discovering our common bra-love? :DDD

ASDJMLJDMALJDMJMJD

Honey, the only weird thing about this entire convo is that your the Howon to my Myungsoo, so there. (And once you wrote the fic of y heart and I still have it open in a tab to comment months later because I am the worst but I loved it so much words become really rebelious and everytime I reread it I still choke up with feels because my heart ok. Also your Hojong goodness, obviously.) (And another time you introduced me to Nell. Things like that, basically.) (Dude, why aren't we friends?)

I have spent so much of my money on lingerie instead of useful things like, idk, FOOD? It's ridiculous. But ughhh I love it so much. Basically, wearing for-sex lingerie on the daily while embracing the no-sex philosphy is my ideal lifestyle. (I wear the prettiness for meeeee, don't anybody dare take that away from me.)

Before I forget! I'm from France :)

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