Oh, God

[lirazel]

I had sworn I wasn't going to do the link-to-whedonesque thing anymore. I'm sure it annoys y'all that I constantly have to scurry back here to get reassurance. I really am going to try to do it less in the future.

But this one time, I have to get my rage out. I'm feeling sick to my stomach and shaky.

Someone on whedonesque just made the most ridiculously sexist, homophobic, patronizing, self-congratulatory comment about shipping ever. And I am ANGRY.

Quote:

Saying that everything has to come down to some ship is kind of insulting. I know you probably weren't meaning to be. But.

I'm not a shipper. You can tell by how I'm a heterosexual adult man. I just like a good story.

Shipping itself is, in my humble opinion, not just stupid but destructive to the fandom. The story is what is what it is (and I'm including the TV show in this), but I can't comment on what actually has happened because it'll offend people who think things should be another way.

Let's say I decide that Riley should have been Buffy's true love, and regardless of what happens in the show, I get angry when she hooks up with anyone else. Doesn't matter that the events clearly show that that's not happening. Im'ma get pissed anyway. See how stupid that would be?

[eta] EMPHASIS HIS.

I...just...WTF?????

I called him on it. How much you wanna bet that he'll pull the whole "oversensitive" card?

It's okay. I will link the hell out of Derailing for Dummies. Never fear.

Comments

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Okay, that just makes me want to cry.

And flail.

And cry some more.

Feminism should be common sense, people!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I KNOW. I just... *flails*


Uhhhh. I need help responding to this. I just don't know what to say.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Dude. He lives in a world where men holds the power. He watches media that is almost exclusively produced, written, and directed by men (Yes! This includes BtVS!).

I'd say sidestep the privilege argument (cause that could get into a tangent). But let him know that women's voices, to this day, still largely go unheard and dismissed. So, yes, when discussing issues involving women and feminism, it's kinda awesome for the men to step back and let women have the floor for once. In any group dynamic, men will tend to dominate the conversation (if he wants studies, I can probably find them). That's his fucking privilege, and he's not even aware of it. That's just "normal" to him. But for women? It means that we end up sitting and listening to guys talk all the time, but when we try to take up at least half of the conversation? We're perceived as taking it over completely.

So yeah, dude, STFU and let the chicks talk. Sheesh.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I'm too flail-y to edit my typos and bad grammar.

Make it sound pretty, hon.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I'm so bad at arguing this. I need to be like, you, or something.

Can I steal some of your words above? Quoting you?

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Go for it. Though I'd de-rage it first (You know, make it sound not-as-angry). Keeping a level tone is a key debate strategy.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm not so good at this. Sigh.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

You are! You're doing a great job! With your powerful words!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, goody! A flounce!

BEING TOLD YOU'RE A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN BECAUSE OF YOUR GENDER??? WELCOME TO BEING A WOMAN. WE FEEL LIKE THAT ALL THE DAMN TIME.

Oh, God. I don't know if I have the patience to do this for the rest of my life. So often I feel like I spend vast portions of my life doing Feminism 101 for people that I could spend being, you know, happy.

GAH!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

He just shut down the communication and told me to stuff basically. That he wouldn't be talking to me period.

Why do men keep doing this to me????

UGH.

I've sent him Private Messages with that link btw. We'll see if he acknowledges them.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Because they're scared of your power.

Seriously. It's just like Buffy in Checkpoint realizing that they're bothered by the words woman and power in the same sentence.

Your words are powerful. They are scared of the way you're refusing to stay in the place the hegemony has assigned you to. That's the answer.

Do let me know how he responds to it.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

You're fab. Seriously, I'm glad that you frequent the non-LJ places. That means you give out the smackdowns that I can't.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Preach, sister.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

I'm often jolted when I wander to non-LJ places of fandom because I'm now so unused to there being so many...um...guys. Not that we don't have any here! There's some wonderfully fantastic guys here in LJville.

BUT, I also know that men are the numerical minority in LJ fandom. Not only that, but feminist thought and ideas are understood and mostly welcome (and, indeed, almost assumed in some parts).

So I have my little comfortable bubble where people are enlightened and thoughtful and egalitarian. When I step outside to take a peek around fandom-at-large, I get a bit of a shock cause it feels like I wandered into Boyztown.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

We do have some great guys here, don't we?

Not only that, but feminist thought and ideas are understood and mostly welcome (and, indeed, almost assumed in some parts).

So I have my little comfortable bubble where people are enlightened and thoughtful and egalitarian. When I step outside to take a peek around fandom-at-large, I get a bit of a shock cause it feels like I wandered into Boyztown.


EXACTLY. This is my reaction, too. The starting line is in a totally different place out there than it is in here.

I like it here.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I'm frantically reading through to catch up, but I just got to the part where he was offended that you said he had privilige as a man.

Send him here. Make it clear that by the definition of privilege, all men have male privilege.

I'll get back to you on other things!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I just replied with this:


Well, it seems like we'll be speaking in separate rooms or something where I can still read his posts and his viewpoint and he won't acknowledge mine. :P

But hey! I'll still talk to you, King. I was just having a discussion about some comments on Whedonesque and how we're all agreeing with you for denouncing that "heterosexual adult male" =/= shipper argument. Lots of praise for that enlightened viewpoint. *thumbs up*

Oh, and this is privilege. It's something the individual has no control over. It exists because of societal views and of how society treats the individual. If the individual is male, then he's privileged. He's got the power and society acknowledges this by giving him his due. The individual doesn't live in a vacuum. If they live in society, they possess a degree of privilege. And in most of the world, that privilege is predominantly male privilege.

I'll add, I don't like being treated like a second-class citizen every day of my life.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Very eloquently stated, as always.

You have powerful words, and you're not afraid to use them. Guys (and some women) will try to shut you down because it's easier to ignore you than try to understand. That's their loss. Only thing you can do is keep talking wherever you can. They can cover their ears, but they can't silence your voice.

*fist-bump of solidarity and...um...sisterhood or somesuch nonsense*