Oh, God

[lirazel]

I had sworn I wasn't going to do the link-to-whedonesque thing anymore. I'm sure it annoys y'all that I constantly have to scurry back here to get reassurance. I really am going to try to do it less in the future.

But this one time, I have to get my rage out. I'm feeling sick to my stomach and shaky.

Someone on whedonesque just made the most ridiculously sexist, homophobic, patronizing, self-congratulatory comment about shipping ever. And I am ANGRY.

Quote:

Saying that everything has to come down to some ship is kind of insulting. I know you probably weren't meaning to be. But.

I'm not a shipper. You can tell by how I'm a heterosexual adult man. I just like a good story.

Shipping itself is, in my humble opinion, not just stupid but destructive to the fandom. The story is what is what it is (and I'm including the TV show in this), but I can't comment on what actually has happened because it'll offend people who think things should be another way.

Let's say I decide that Riley should have been Buffy's true love, and regardless of what happens in the show, I get angry when she hooks up with anyone else. Doesn't matter that the events clearly show that that's not happening. Im'ma get pissed anyway. See how stupid that would be?

[eta] EMPHASIS HIS.

I...just...WTF?????

I called him on it. How much you wanna bet that he'll pull the whole "oversensitive" card?

It's okay. I will link the hell out of Derailing for Dummies. Never fear.

Comments

[madcap-shiny.livejournal.com]

OH SCREW THAT.

Screw. That.

This is one of those times when I'm tempted to just get an account on a site so I can slam somebody for their stupidity. (I have never actually gone through with this. BUT OH THE ALLURE AT THE MOMENT.)

[ruuger]

Good for you for calling Dispatch out, I doubt the mods would have intervened otherwise. I'm not a huge shipper myself, but the patronising anti-shipping atmosphere at Whedonesque annoys me to no end - it's a-okay to call someone a retard, but heaven forbid if you should say that you like Spike/Buffy or some other ship. That way lies the ruin of all fandom! Bah.

And I've gotta say, I didn't think I'd ever agree with KingofCretins about anything, but he's actually making sense there.

(also: Hi! I hope you don't mind that I friended you)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I KNOW!

And there's totally a way to communicate the fact that you aren't fond of shipping and the way it affects fandom without BEING SO F'ING SEXIST AND HOMOPHOBIC AND LECTURING ALL US LITTLE LADIES ON HOW WE SHOULD REACT.

GRRRR!

I love you forever for being tempted. And do not blame you for not doing so. Seriously, it's an uphill battle over there.

*sigh*

[elisi]

I'm not a shipper. You can tell by how I'm a heterosexual adult man.
I... don't have any words. *walks away before she breaks anything*

[madcap-shiny.livejournal.com]

Remember that "girls are ruining sci-fi" article debacle from ages ago? I was THISCLOSE to actually signing up over there, because not only was the article so disgusting, so many people were agreeing with it. (One commentator was talking about how Buffy was so gross to him because of all the ICKY GIRLS KICKING ASS OMG but Firefly "redeemed" Joss Whedon for him a little because it was so obvious the crew depended on Mal being a Big Strong Man to keep them from falling apart. OHMYGODSMASHKILLDESTROY)

I really, really hope that this BS over at Whedonesque doesn't come to that level of breathtaking AWFULNESS. I am glad Simon stepped in (though I'd be happier if someone just flat-out banned him, omfg.)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Your icon is made of win! Especially in this context!

But yes. Thanks! I felt it completely necessary to appeal to the mods.

It wasn't so much the anti-shipping sentiment--I've seen that a thousand times. It was the blatantly patronizing way he said it, like as a man--a straight man--he was above such stupid, destructive things, that those are the realm of stupid women and stupid gay men.

AND THEN HE TRIED TO LECTURE US LIKE ALL WE NEEDED ALL ALONG WAS A BIG, STRONG, RATIONAL MAN TO EXPLAIN IT AND WE'D ALL SEE THE LIGHT.

I mean, the anti-shipper sentiment over there is dumb, but whatever. It's the way he said it.

I've actually been agreeing with KingofCretins since the whole Twilight reveal. I don't know that I agreed with him before anything that because I've never particularly paid attention to his other comments. *shrug*

Also, I've noticed you calling people out on sexism over there on several occasions, and I want to thank you. Sometimes I feel like you and I and a few others are the voices in the wilderness there as far as sexism goes.

And yes! Friend away! I will friend back!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

You are a wise woman.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

OH GOD YES I REMEMBER. HULKSMASH!

I don't think it will go quite that far. The mods are pretty good about steering people away from flamewars--they have practice. But they aren't always as good at recognizing inappropriate comments as I wish they were.

[bobthemole.livejournal.com]

Oh god. I'm getting really REALLY sick of women being marginalized and dismissed as fans because we're over-sensitive, emotional and - now - destructive to the One True Fandom.


Excuse me, I have to go burn a bra.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, I love you for this comment. You totally nailed what's going on here.

Have I friended you back? I don't even know. *scurries off to check*

[next_to_normal]

It's a good thing I don't have an account at Whedonesque or I'd probably be getting banned today. :-P

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I erased my original comment like three times before I posted. The first one was like, "OH JUST WHAT US HYSTERICAL WIMMINIZ NEEDS. A BIG STRONG RATIONAL MAN TO SHOW US THE ERROR OF OUR WAYS" etc., etc., etc. It was ANGRY.

I sometimes wish I never signed up for an account there.

Every time you use that icon, I come closer to stealing it...

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

UM WHUT?

Excuuuuuse me, but even if I ship someone that doesn't mean I'm a) stupid, b) not paying attention to the overall story arc, c) enjoy good writing.

And if a story pairs a character (as they all seem to do anyway, which is just CANON shipping) with someone completely incompatible/weird/nobasisforarelationship then how does that make me immature for thinking the writers are paying attention to their own storylines?

Argh. How annoying and presumptuous.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

UM, YES.

THANK YOU.

*uses similar awesome-Zoe-kicking-ass icon*

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

I think this reply to the comment sums it up:

I'm not a shipper. You can tell by how I'm a heterosexual adult man. I just like a good story.


Please, please, please, please, please, mods, tell me you're not going to let all the patronizing sexism in that comment stand. Please.

Also, what on earth does your being straight have to do with anything at all? So being destructive and stupid is something only hysterical wimminz and gay guys do?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Hahaha! That was my comment! So I'm glad you thought it summed everything up! Win!

[ruuger]

Your icon is made of win! Especially in this context!

It has for some odd reason become my usual posting-about_Whedonesque idon... ;) The icon itself is from shinyshinybaum's batch of icons with random quotes by James Marsters, the master of weird non-sequiturs :D

It was the blatantly patronizing way he said it, like as a man--a straight man--he was above such stupid, destructive things, that those are the realm of stupid women and stupid gay men.

To me pretty much all anti-shipping talk sounds like that, though it might be just because I used to be (and still am) active in the 'boy' side of fandom before coming to the 'girl' side of Livejournal and fanfiction, so I'm used to anti-shipping always coming coupled with the attitude that shipping and fanfiction are silly wimminz things and /real/ (men) fans don't do it.

I don't know that I agreed with him before anything that because I've never particularly paid attention to his other comments.

I've clashed with him couple of times over Dollhouse and S8 and he's always come across as really patronising (though less in a mansplaing way and more in a general 'bow before my greatness plebes' kind of a way).

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

I'm not a shipper. You can tell by how I'm a heterosexual adult man.

...because he's being a douchebag?

Okay. Couldn't resist. He left himself open for it!

I like how he added "adult" in there, implying that shippers are being childish (as well as being irrational wimmenfolk). What a charmer. I'd like to play with him.

[deird1]

The first one was like, "OH JUST WHAT US HYSTERICAL WIMMINIZ NEEDS. A BIG STRONG RATIONAL MAN TO SHOW US THE ERROR OF OUR WAYS" etc., etc., etc. It was ANGRY.

Probably a good thing you didn't post it... but I kinda wish you had. That would have been very satisfying to watch.

[bobthemole.livejournal.com]

Yay new friend!

[mollivanders.livejournal.com]

Haha, I fail at being observant :)

Do you think we have enough fierce women in our icons to make our point?

[next_to_normal]

Hee! You know you wants it...

I also feel that this one is appropriate.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I have such a weird relationship with James Marsters. Er...not that I know him. But he's hilarious and he seems to always be really good to his fans...but then there's his romantic life, and it makes me headdesk forever. Sigh. He leaves me conflicted, as a person. Though not as an actor, which is probably a sign I should just stick to watching him on TV and ignore all the things other people post about his personal life.

But seriously, those icons are made of win, and I kind of love that you use that one when talking about whedonesque!

My time in the "boy" side of fandom was a long time ago and not in the Buffyverse. By the time I got involved in shipping, I was already pretty heavily into fanfiction as my primary fandom, so I never really saw the anti-shipping attitude as sexist, though I can easily imagine that this is the case, and I'll probably notice it more from now on.

(though less in a mansplaing way and more in a general 'bow before my greatness plebes' kind of a way).
Well, at least no mansplaining (seriously, isn't that the greatest word ever? I use it all the time!). That's much worse, imo, than just that general, "I'm the final word on life" kind of condescension.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I was so close...

But it's good that I didn't over there, because I know Simon would have told me to drop it, and then the implication would have been that I was at fault as well. *sigh* Oh, well. I feel like my finally posted comment communicated my anger well enough.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

It's okay. I do, too!

THERE CAN NEVER BE ENOUGH FIERCE WOMEN!