Two of my favorite things: feminism and Whedon shows

[lirazel]

Via a recent link on whedonesque, I stumbled across a series at meloukhia.net about feminism and Joss Whedon's shows. The one linked to on whedonesque is on Dollhouse, and is a bit disappointing--it opens arguments without really exploring them, to be honest. But some of the older articles are worth checking out.

Like this one on sex and punishment on Joss's shows--not anything that hasn't been said before, but still, nice to see someone examining it again.

But I really, really like this two part exploration of how Angel is really pretty antifeminist. It especially delves into Cordelia's character and hints at how it was destroyed (I still want to yell "WTF, JOSS?" about that one), and it had one especially insightful quote I wanted to share.

We see a recurring theme with Cordelia: she is not allowed control of her body, because her body “needs” to be used by others. Yes. I had never, ever noticed this before (probably mostly because I got into Angel before I really learned how to read texts from a feminist perspective), but it is so, so true. From demon pregnancies to visions forced on her against her will to having her body stolen from her to be the vessel of Jasmine, poor Cordy is never allowed to be Cordy for very long before her body is stolen from her again. Since she's far and away my favorite character on that show (with Gunn in a close second), and since I love her so hardcore on Buffy, where she's always HBIC, this still makes me bitter.

And then Fred goes through the same thing! It's troubling, and not something I'd thought about on a conscious level, even if I would have told you that Angel isn't exactly a feminist show.

On the other hand, the second part includes some truly great moments for women on Angel and also has some love for Lilah, who I think is just an incredibly fabulous character in every way.

I don't agree with all her points in all the articles (obviously), but still, there's some interesting stuff going on all of them. I really appreciate that she's examining all this from the point of view of a fan who still sees problematic aspects of shows she loves (just like me!).

ALSO: Go vote for Buffy here! Because River is beating her, and we can't have that! As much as I love River, Buffy is my hero.

[ETA] While we're on the topic of Joss-criticism, I thought I'd throw out this link, too, since it's someone who is far more knowledgeable than I am calling him out about something else that's really bothered me about his shows.

Comments

[kerry-220.livejournal.com]

...and then there's me.

The links are fabulous. Thanks for them.

However there is a couple of things that I find a little troubling - not that I don't on the whole agree....but for the sake of debate (doncha love those qualifiers)

Okay, Cordelia is oftentimes a 'vessel' and I've no arguments on the questionable nature of 'Expecting' and 'She'. But it can't be ignored that the visions came from Doyle - a man - and in the 'Birthday' sent Angel crazy. Both factors tend to suggest Cordelia wasn't being exploited because of her sex. I also can't ignore that the subtext of the first two/three seasons was Cordelia's recognition that she was more than a pretty exploitable face, but in fact a warrior. Okay, this is a 'duh!', from the feminist perspective, but nevertheless relevant. Finally, I always keep in mind the whole 'Jasmine' storyline is a cobbled together mess to compensate for Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy. Yes, the 'behind the scenes' rumours are deeply disturbing, but a little irrelvent if the complaint is Cordy's body is being used again.

Moving on to Fred, okay the 'handsome man' saved her. But she really needs some credit for surviving five years in an alien environment (no examples of a man doing that) and to all intents and purposes saving Angel's life as well. As for her body being 'used' for Illyria - I can't be alone in being dazzled by Amy Acker's extraordinary performance. Illyria is the shiz!

Regarding Darla, hmmmm. I always thought they were more involved in the effect of a soul on a vampire. If she managed that through her child, so be it. I'm really hard pressed to find a problem with that.

The thing is I really believe the most used and abused character on AtS was Wesley.

Maybe I'm too complacent and need a good hard talking to.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

ut it can't be ignored that the visions came from Doyle - a man - and in the 'Birthday' sent Angel crazy. Both factors tend to suggest Cordelia wasn't being exploited because of her sex. I kind of disagree. I know that this isn't what you're saying at all, but that reminds me of the "because men also get raped, you can't talk about rape as a women's issue!" Because the visions alone wouldn't be a problem. It's because they're in a show in which Cordy's body is consistently seen as not-her-own (and Fred's, too) that it becomes troubling. If this was the only instance of it, I would have zero problem with it. It's only as it's part of a larger problem that it becomes...problematic.

Honestly, I don't know much about the behind-the-scenes stuff (though I'm a total sucker for that sort of thing), so I can't speak to that, but what I will say is that I find the second pregnancy storyline (Cordy had already had a demon pregnancy) to be very, very badly done indeed. I can think of six or seven ways in which they could have integrated her pregnancy so that they wouldn't make her a victim. If I can think of those things, surely the writers should have been able to.

The thing about Fred is, we don't see any of that. All of that (pretty much) happens to her before she becomes part of the show. Then, once she is part of the show, she becomes the damsel who always needs saving. And I adore Illyria and Amy Acker's performance, but again, I believe it becomes problematic because of the context of the show. All this stuff piled on top of each other is what becomes the fail. If anyone one or two of these things were happening, it would be totally awesome!

Same thing with the Darla--if there weren't this consistent victimization of women on the show, I think that plotline would be completlely touching. As it is, it just makes me sort of groan (now that Gabs pointed it out).

The thing is I really believe the most used and abused character on AtS was Wesley. This may be true, but he's never abused because of his gender. And abusing men doesn't have nearly the same connotations that abusing women does. It makes a difference within the larger context of both the show...and the world.

I don't think you're necessarily too complacent. I just don't happen to agree! ;) I can't judge these plotlines/characterizations one by one on their own, which is what I think you can do. I look at them and see a big, jumbly mess. Apparently, you look at them and see each one entire. And that's cool! We'll just agree to disagree!