Two of my favorite things: feminism and Whedon shows

[lirazel]

Via a recent link on whedonesque, I stumbled across a series at meloukhia.net about feminism and Joss Whedon's shows. The one linked to on whedonesque is on Dollhouse, and is a bit disappointing--it opens arguments without really exploring them, to be honest. But some of the older articles are worth checking out.

Like this one on sex and punishment on Joss's shows--not anything that hasn't been said before, but still, nice to see someone examining it again.

But I really, really like this two part exploration of how Angel is really pretty antifeminist. It especially delves into Cordelia's character and hints at how it was destroyed (I still want to yell "WTF, JOSS?" about that one), and it had one especially insightful quote I wanted to share.

We see a recurring theme with Cordelia: she is not allowed control of her body, because her body “needs” to be used by others. Yes. I had never, ever noticed this before (probably mostly because I got into Angel before I really learned how to read texts from a feminist perspective), but it is so, so true. From demon pregnancies to visions forced on her against her will to having her body stolen from her to be the vessel of Jasmine, poor Cordy is never allowed to be Cordy for very long before her body is stolen from her again. Since she's far and away my favorite character on that show (with Gunn in a close second), and since I love her so hardcore on Buffy, where she's always HBIC, this still makes me bitter.

And then Fred goes through the same thing! It's troubling, and not something I'd thought about on a conscious level, even if I would have told you that Angel isn't exactly a feminist show.

On the other hand, the second part includes some truly great moments for women on Angel and also has some love for Lilah, who I think is just an incredibly fabulous character in every way.

I don't agree with all her points in all the articles (obviously), but still, there's some interesting stuff going on all of them. I really appreciate that she's examining all this from the point of view of a fan who still sees problematic aspects of shows she loves (just like me!).

ALSO: Go vote for Buffy here! Because River is beating her, and we can't have that! As much as I love River, Buffy is my hero.

[ETA] While we're on the topic of Joss-criticism, I thought I'd throw out this link, too, since it's someone who is far more knowledgeable than I am calling him out about something else that's really bothered me about his shows.

Comments

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That's my main beef with Angel. They also set up Angel (the character) to be the Big Hero Who Protects the Women. And Fred...gah! She always complains that she's not a "damsel in distress" but yes. Yes she completely is. All the time.

And her death...I stopped watching for a while after that. It was just another instance of a woman's body being made into something alien and vessel-like for a demon. It was bad enough when they did it to Cordy.

I have severe feminist issues with AtS.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah! And don't forget Darla who is redeemed through motherhood! Cause that's the way to tame a woman. *nods*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I hadn't even considered that one. Ugh.

[eldritchowl.livejournal.com]

I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THAT.


My soul just died a little, I think.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Agreed on everything. Especially with Fred.

I hate so much that the show fails on that level, because I want to like it so much. Cordy's there! They actually explore the idea of demons not being entirely evil! It's got that cool noir-ish thing going on! J. August Richards is pretty!

But when it fails, it fails so hard, and it keeps me from loving it like I do BtVS.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I find myself not wanting to look for metaphors in ANGEL and just watching it for entertainment. Because looking closer diminishes the love.

The opposite is true with Buffy. The closer I look, the more I love it. Just like with her character. The closer I look at Buffy, the more I love her.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Yep yep. Word. :)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I love the way you phrased all that. Because it's so true. Every word.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I also get annoyed with the Big Poignant Moments. AtS is all about themes, and they're very explicitly portrayed. I tend to prefer themes more subtly done.

Meh. I'm giving it another chance with my rewatch. But I had a lot of issues the first time I watched it. I have reaction posts on my LJ under watching angel for when I first saw it. Heh.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

AtS is all about themes, and they're very explicitly portrayed. I tend to prefer themes more subtly done. YES! I wouldn't have thought of it in just that way, but you're so right! They sacrifice characters and common sense for the sake of those moments.

I'll be checking out those reaction posts. I always love reading that type of thing.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

YES! I wouldn't have thought of it in just that way, but you're so right!

Eh, don't credit me with it. I was reading some of elisi's meta and she points out that AtS is about themes while BtVS is about characters (specifically, the Scoobies). Or maybe it was some shadowkat67 meta. Either way. They're both brilliant. :)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Ah, I love [Unknown site tag]. I'm constantly referencing things she came up with. I'll have to check out shadowkat67, too!