fic: the heart in reverse

[lirazel]

Some of you who have been on my flist a while might remember that I always try to celebrate my birthday Hobbit-style by posting a fic on that day. Well, today I do have something for you, but it's kind of strange? It's almost as much meta as it is fic, exploring how I think Buffy might think about Spike in canon (S6 and before), and it was definitely inspired by these thoughts by pocochina about masculinity and bad boys (and subsequent discussion in the comments), because I happen to believe that Buffy would have been very socially conditioned in her thoughts about guys and attractiveness and depictions of masculinity. You should read the post because it is the BEST and also because it might help you understand why I ended up writing this? This may not be to everyone's taste, but I hope at least a few of you enjoy it.

Also (and I don't think I should have to say this, but I will just in case), Buffy may express some particular thoughts in here that I don't hold--that aren't my opinions of the characters or my interpretation of canon. This is Buffy's head, and it's significantly different than mine.

And now: a fic.

Title: the heart in reverse
Fandom: Buffyverse
Characters/Pairing: Buffy/Spike with some exploration of Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Riley
Rating: PG-13 for sexy times
Spoilers through: mid-Season 6
Thanks to: angearia for telling me that yes, I can post this
A/N: This is unbetaed, so my apologies for any problems arising from that.
Summary: Buffy has never found Spike attractive. Which is weird, seeing as how she's sleeping with him now.



It isn’t just the evil thing. The vampire thing actually makes it easier to understand, easier to work it all out in her head. Riley thought that’s what it was, anyway: his adventures with vamp suck-jobs made it more than clear that he thought that the reason she wasn’t giving him what he needed was because she was so into vamps. At the time, she’d burned with fury over just how not-true she thought that was (“A vampire got me hot. One. But he is gone.”)—when she wasn’t burning with shame over how she’d failed yet again and how the men in her life seemed to leave her behind no matter how hard she tried.

Now, though, she clings to the idea. Wicked energy. That’s what she’s attracted to. Just torn out of heaven, she’s longing for death again, and it’s clear enough where she can find it. Vampires: Angel, Dracula, Spike. Maybe there’s even something Slayer-y that causes it or maybe it really is that she came back wrong, maybe even the first time she died. Either way, that explanation is easy to wrap her mind around, and it’s the one she’s settled on.

Sometimes, though, like now, late at night and lying naked and covered in love-bites (oh God) in a crypt, the thought plagues her that it isn’t a good explanation. That there isn’t a good explanation for Spike. Because nothing about him makes sense.

It has to be the vampire thing, she tells herself. It has to be a death wish, or the fact that he’s here and convenient, or maybe the fact that he’s still here when all the other men who claim to love her leave or something. Because she refuses to believe that it could possibly just be Spike.

He’s not attractive. She has to remind herself of that, now, though it didn’t even occur to her for years that he might be. She knows what she likes when it comes to guys, what turns her on, and it’s height and bulk and muscles and the kind of features that Angel had, and Riley. She likes men who exude that kind of football-playing All-American manliness, stoic and competent. They had made her feel tiny and delicate, and she had liked the size of them—she’d even liked Riley’s heat, the smell of him, musky and so different than the scents that filled up her house full of women.

Spike is nothing like that. He’s short, for one thing, and way skinnier under the folds of his duster than she’s ever found herself drawn to. His face is a little too pretty and narrow, and that stupid hair doesn’t help anything. She’s pretty sure she’s seen him wearing eyeliner before, which—yuck. And the ugliest jewelry she’s ever seen, which is just weird. And he wears nail polish, for God’s sake. She remembers storming into his crypt more than once and finding him applying it, and that just seemed wrong to her. As much as she might enjoy her little routines of makeup and choosing outfits and such, it just seemed wrong when it was a guy who did it. What the hell was he thinking? He probably paid more attention to his looks than most women, and what was up with that? That alone had been enough to keep her from ever finding him hot.

And it isn’t just the way he looks, though that’s enough in itself. It’s just who he is that doesn’t fit her idea of what’s sexy in a man at all. Angel’s mysteriousness, the way he popped into her life and disappeared, doling out helpful information in tiny doses and then disappearing—she had claimed to find it annoying at the time, but she knows it reeled her in. She had been really young, and he had been everything she’d imagined she could want in a guy. Tall, Dark, Handsome, the Stranger who popped into her life for the kissing and the heart-wrenching confessions (mostly on her part, and that was okay) and then disappeared again while she dealt with life. That had been too much with the drama-filled, maybe, probably it never would have worked out for good. But she’d thought she’d traded up with Riley, at least in theory; he may not have been able to make her cry like Angel, but that was a good thing, wasn’t it? He came along and seemed like the perfect boyfriend—the physical type she liked without the accompanying coldness and blood addiction, and while he was competent and manly in the right ways, he didn’t do the whole mysterious thing—he was straightforward and forthright and all those things that former Boy Scouts were supposed to be without ever being too honest or open. And yeah, that hadn’t worked, and she still doesn’t like to think about how she ran him off—the thought plagues her at night that maybe she wasn’t woman enough for him. Not needy and fragile and totally invested in their relationship above all other things. Dawn says that it’s because he wanted her to be as crazy over him as she was over Angel, but that doesn’t make sense, because she can see now that that craziness wasn’t healthy, and besides, Dawn is fifteen and not at all the person she should be listening to when it comes to her love life.

Anyway, the point is, she totally gets Angel and Riley and who they were. They made sense to her, unlike Spike, who continually baffles her. He just feels too much, and it’s all there on the surface, in his expressions, in his eyes. There’s something so hungry and eager and earnest in him, and it repulses her even as, now that she’s come back to life, she can’t help being drawn to it. It’s too much, too open, and she wants to scream at him not to do that, not to give so much away, but acknowledging it would just make it worse and so her fist finds its way to his nose again and again. It kind of terrifies her, honestly, and she doesn’t know what to do with that level of vulnerability from a guy. The fact that he keeps putting all his feelings out there means that she has to deal with them, has to acknowledge them, and she is just not down with that at all.

And he talks and he talks and he talks, and God, that is so annoying. He wants to talk about what she’s feeling and how they relate to each other and what they are, and aren’t guys supposed to be the ones who hate talking about that stuff? Aren’t they supposed to be the ones who are afraid of commitment? Spike, in his stubborn, stupid way personifies commitment, and she finds that she’s the one who finds it terrifying.

What it comes down to is that guys are not supposed to act like that. And she isn’t supposed to want guys who act like that.

She didn’t, at first. It didn’t even occur to her to think about whether he was hot or not. That’s pretty standard—even when they’re in human face, as they rarely are, she just doesn’t think of vampires in those terms (she hadn’t known about Angel till after she started to fall for him). But it wasn’t just the vamp thing: she remembers that night in the alley, and at first she didn’t even realize he was a vampire. Her eyes flicked over him from head to toe, and she doesn’t remember even considering his attractiveness. It was kind of like looking at Xander or Giles: in that first second of meeting him, he’d been relegated to guys whose attractiveness she didn’t even gauge. Everything about him seemed designed to be everything she doesn’t find appealing in guys. And it pretty much stayed like that until he came back for the Gem of Amara and then the whole chip thing happened and suddenly he was around all the time, annoying and running his mouth and in her space, and that’s when the dreams started.

She actually hadn’t really worried about the first one. It wasn’t all that explicit, just some kissing and such, a fight morphing into something else. Yeah, it was weird, and she still didn’t think he was hot, but dreams were crazy things, even if other Slayers weren’t interfering in them, and you couldn’t really control them, she knew that. It didn’t mean anything. She knew that for sure. Just chemicals and memories mixing around in there, and spitting out randomness that meant about as much as a guy offering up cheese for no reason. She’d shoved it away.

But it kept happening, and she grew horrified. It wasn’t all the time or anything. It wasn’t even as often as she had sexy-type dreams. Most of them were still Angel-shaped with some nice ones featuring Riley, and that was fine. But every once in a while, it would be Spike instead, his skin cool where Riley’s was warm, his body streamlined where Angel’s was large. The first time it happened while she was sharing a bed with Riley, she was so disturbed that she’d slid out of bed, dragged on her clothes and went another round of patrol, beating up on fledges until the burn of exercise made the memory of the dream fade a bit.

She’d tried to figure it out then, because it was ridiculous. Spike wasn’t hot. Or, well, now that she thought about, she guessed she could see what somebody like Drusilla would see in him—they were of a type, weirdly enough, kinda Goth-y and alternative, and that was okay. But she wasn’t any of those things. She was beach bunny Buffy, and she didn’t even think he was hot, so why was he popping up in her dreams like this?

And maybe she took out her frustration—no, not that kind, at least not at first while Riley was still around—on him with the punching of the noses and the scathing remarks, or maybe she just enjoyed those things and that was why she did them (“I do beat him up a lot. For Spike, that’s like third base.”). But she found herself studying him sometimes, probably with her nose all scrunched up in thought, trying to figure out why her subconscious kept trying to convince her that this guy was sexy when he so totally clearly wasn’t.

And okay, he had pretty eyes, she could admit that; the color at least, though those eyelashes totally belonged on a girl. And cheekbones, while not something she’d ever spent a lot of time thinking about before, could be rather striking, she supposed, when they were as defined as Spike’s. But his mouth was too pretty by far and nothing about him matched up with her ideals of masculinity and there was no way in hell that she’d ever want a guy who wore jewelry like that—and did she mention the nail polish?

After the whole chaining-her-up-and-threatening-to-feed-her-to-his-crazy-ho-bag-ex, she became even more convinced that he was everything that was repulsive and wrong in the world, and for the most part she did a pretty good job of just not thinking about him at all. Still, there were the dreams, and as much as she tried to tell herself that they were just the result of her not getting any ever since Riley left (another man she ran off) and Spike sort of always just being around, she finally had to admit to herself after she kissed him in thanks for standing up to Glory that, okay, she must be at least a little bit attracted to him, even if that didn’t make any kind of sense at all. She wouldn’t have kissed Xander or Giles in that situation. But she hadn’t really thought twice before she kissed Spike, even if it was the sort of brief, passionless thing she could write off as meaningless afterwards. Still, her own newly-self-confessed attraction continued to confuse her, even if Glory and taking care of Dawn and mourning Mom hadn’t left her with much time to think about it.

But she could pinpoint the exact moment it kind of began to make sense to her. It was the night she died, the night Dawn was taken, the night when everything changed, and he was standing below her staring up at her with these eyes that were shining way too bright and this face that said way too much—and this mouth that was saying way, way, way too much—and she thought, “He’s beautiful.”

That was not the right moment for thinking about him like that, so she shoved the thought away. But then she died and came back, and suddenly she found herself sitting in his crypt and his knuckles were bleeding, and he was telling her way too much again, and she knew that if she was feeling like herself, she would have wanted to punch him because guys just weren’t supposed to show this much of their hearts like this, especially with no prompting whatsoever and to someone who didn’t return any of the sentiments. But she wasn’t herself and hadn’t been since they brought her back (dragged her out, really, but she didn’t let herself think like that)—the world was still kind of cottony while simultaneously being way too harsh, and so she’d only had the distant thought that he was really, really pretty to look at and that maybe the way his face and his voice decided to broadcast every feeling he ever had wasn’t really so bad as she’d once thought it was.

She didn’t really think about it much after that, because she just didn’t seem to have the emotional energy: life was hard enough as it was without trying to figure out at which point Spike had really become so very pretty. But then there was the singing and the kissing, and okay, that she could admit quite freely: he was really, really good at it. She’d thought so when they’d been engaged, but that wasn’t real, and she’d quite easily determined that it was just because of the spell that she’d enjoyed herself so much. And if squirming on his lap and kissing his lips off popped up again occasionally in her dreams, well, she often relived some of the more memorable supernaturally-type things in her life through dreams. It made sense.

But they wouldn’t make sense, not together. She told herself that after the kissing the first time, and the second time. For one thing, they’d look ridiculous together. She was almost as tall as he was, and they both dyed their hair blonde (and she didn’t even want to know how much money he’d spent on hair upkeep over the decades), and their clothes would look totally and completely jarring even in the same room, not to mention next to each other. No one would ever believe that a girl like her was with a guy like him. They’d clash. Not like him and Drusilla—they had looked right together. She and Angel had, too, she was sure, even if she’d never seen them side-by-side because of the whole mirror thing: she could easily imagine, though.

And it didn’t even stop with the looks, the not-sense-making-ness that would be her and Spike. They were both with the talking—well, her not so much right now, but once she felt more like herself again, probably she’d go back to that—and she had liked the way Angel’s silence balanced her out. And he liked the world’s worst music, all that screeching and howling. Riley had liked country and oldies rock, and even though they hadn’t been her thing, she could see the appeal and some of it hadn’t been awful at all. She and Spike didn’t seem to have overlapping taste about anything at all.

And okay, he likes to fight and is good at it, and she doesn’t totally hate him patrolling with her. But if they were in any kind of actual relationship (not that she’s considering it at all), would he, like, want to paint their nails together and stuff? That’s something she does with Willow—or, did, back when they were close—or with her sister—again, back when she knew how to interact with people. She doesn’t do that with guys. Wouldn’t. Just another reason why she and Spike would make the world’s worst couple.

But even those things don’t count as much as just who he is. More than anything, his kind of openness, his absolute devotion to her, his desperate, obvious, vulnerable craving to be loved just terrifies her. She’s not used to guys feeling those things. Or maybe Angel and Riley felt them, but they had the good sense and the decency not to show them. She doesn’t have any idea how to react like to that, and there doesn’t seem to be any kind of pattern she can follow. Cosmo only has quizzes on what to do when your guy won’t commit or can’t communicate, not any on how to handle it when he’s way too good at communicating and the depths of his emotions scare you. And even if Mom were alive, Buffy’s not sure she’d be of any help; her parents had loads of problems, but none of them were like this.

Strangely, she finds herself thinking of her friends back in L.A. She hasn’t thought of them in years, but she imagines what those giggly girls who remind her of some of Cordelia’s crowd would think if they saw her with Spike. She can only imagine them wrinkling their noses in disgust at his jewelry and his almost feminine flair for drama; they’d be completely bewildered by his emotions. And none of them would understand what Buffy saw in him. Which doesn’t surprise her, because she still mostly doesn’t understand what she sees in him.

It’s gotta be the vampire thing, right? Or the sex thing, maybe, because even she has to admit that he’s mindblowingly good at it—and that she’s better at it than she thought she was. With Angel she was mostly just terrified, and she was insecure enough with Parker even before he made her feel like an immature, needy little girl. She’d been self-conscious the first few times with Riley, but after a while she became confident that he really was into her and really did enjoy their time together, and after that she didn’t spend much time analyzing things at all. They just…did them. And they experimented a little and figured out some new things, but they were the kinds of things she’d read about in Mom’s stash of romance paperbacks back when she was first figuring out that she might like to kiss boys. Sometimes adventurous, but never…abnormal.

Spike, though, seems to have no limits, and she would have thought that that would make her feel inadequate: he’s had over a century to have sex and get good at it and learn things, and he’s a vampire and they’re not exactly the most vanilla in bed. But not once has she felt judged or self-conscious: it was kind of hard to feel that way after their first time. She can’t help but feel excited about all the things she’s learning, and that makes her feel guilty, because shouldn’t she be horrified at herself? But she never is when they’re exploring each others’ bodies, only afterwards when she’s panting and the sweat is cooling against her skin and it comes home to her just exactly who he is and what they’ve been doing. While they’re in the middle of it, sex with Spike just feels like the most natural thing in the world.

And the thought does occur to her, once or twice, though she tries not to dwell on it (trying-not-to-dwell seems to be the chorus of the song that is her relationship with Spike) that maybe they don’t clash so bad when they’re naked, when the clothes and the drama is stripped away and it’s just her and him and skin. His body, which she never would have found sexy before, suddenly becomes beautiful, which just gives her the wiggans. Because before that night on the stairs, she had never, ever thought of a guy as beautiful. Gorgeous, sure. Hot, sexy, handsome, any other number of adjectives (those are adjectives, right? She thinks she was paying attention in English class that day). But not beautiful. Beautiful is a word that should apply to women or sunsets or paintings or something. Not guys. But he kind of is, weird as that is.

But then she’ll see his jewelry or look at him while he’s dressed or he’ll say something a little too sweet, a little too vulnerable, and she’ll be jolted back into remembering (he’s stopped painting his nails since she last made fun of them, and she’s at least grateful for that. She thinks she might lose it if she looked down at the sight of those black-tipped fingers against her skin). It was that ugly, random necklace around his neck that first morning after that pissed her off at him just as much as his words did ( “I knew it! I knew the only thing better than killing a Slayer would be fu—“). She’d had a very clear moment of, What the hell, Buffy? How could you sleep with a guy who wears that thing? How could you want to? But then there’d been the kissing, and that was so, so distracting—until he mouthed off again and she had managed to flee.

Fleeing is the only word for it, because every time he distracts her with all the amazing things he can do with his body (with all the amazing things her body can feel), she forgets for a little while. And then it all comes slamming back into her, the wrongness that is Spike and her being with Spike and her wanting to be with Spike. The cycle keeps repeating itself over and over again and yes, it’s got to be the vampire thing or the amazing sex thing. Really amazing sex.

And that’s understandable, right? If those Harlequins of her mom’s taught her anything, it’s that other women like great sex, too. So it’s acceptable that that’s how he reels her in, right? Except she never really heard of a guy who was as…orally fixated as he is. Sometimes he almost seems like he enjoys getting her off more than he does getting off himself, and there’s nothing normal about that, right? Either way, she can close her eyes when he goes down on her, and she tries to pretend like he’s someone else—she can’t quite bring herself to pretend he’s Angel, because that seems too cruel, even if it’s just in her head (she shouldn’t care that she knows that it would hurt him, but somehow she does). But she tries to imagine someone more along those lines: taller, broader, more rough-hewn, more rugged, and far, far less vulnerable. Stitching together a perfect man in her mind.

It doesn’t work. It never works. Because she’s constantly aware that it is indeed Spike, and the fact that it’s Spike is the point, and that the hotness, the feeling that it’s so good that her skin is going to slide right off of her bones, all of it comes back to Spike and his stupid eyelashes and his stupid fingers and his stupid way of looking at her like she’s the entire universe in human form and his stupid way of lovinglovingloving her.

Sometimes, when it’s late at night and the whole world is still and she can’t sleep—or when her mind drifts during a particularly horrifically monotonous/stressful day at the DMP—or when Spike is deepdeepdeep inside her in ways that should terrify her—sometimes she finds a place inside her that craves Spike’s kind of loving, type of giving, brand of honesty.

And it’s in those times that she’s most certain: something has to be wrong with her.

Comments

[norwie2010.livejournal.com]

Happy birthday! :)

(Will read tomorrow - have to sleep now to slave later).

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you! And sleep well!

[ceciliaj.livejournal.com]

Aw, oh my gosh, I just devoured this fic! I absolutely love it, both in its own right, and as a response to poco's post. Lovely. Will likely read it again carefully once I've gotten over the "ooooooh!" of it all :).

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, good! I'm so glad someone enjoyed it! So many people write fics where Buffy is instantly attracted to Spike, and judging by the other guys she dates, I just don't think she would be? This kind of grew out of that belief. Anyway, thanks so much!

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

akjdfsajkaskfld more mindless keyboard smashing because this is perfect and actually something I've wondered about quite a bit- I'd always meant to write the "Spike isn't Buffy's type" meta but I never had the words for it- and this does it so well that I'm smiling at the ~clarity of it.

It was the night she died, the night Dawn was taken, the night when everything changed, and he was standing below her staring up at her with these eyes that were shining way too bright and this face that said way too much—and this mouth that was saying way, way, way too much—and she thought, “He’s beautiful.”

THIS SENTENCE THOUGH. I love how you bring Buffy to the slow realization as internal subsumes external and Spike changes in her eyes- not necessarily through his own actions (because he's still the same to her, even reformed, even trying to be better)- but through her own development.

Everything about this is so on target (and also happy birthday again!) I can't even~

Sorry this is so flaily so much quality fic on LJ today

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

OKAY I LOVE YOU MADLY FOR UNDERSTANDING, because one conversation I've never had with anybody is just how important it is to me that Spike is not Buffy's type. Like, this is so huge for me in how I understand them. I think she's just as thrown by him as a person as she is by him as a vampire, and she would never expect to fall for him and she has a type, dammit! And the fact that she ends up being won over by this guy who isn't anything like anyone she would have chosen for herself is exactly one of the reasons why this pairing is so powerful for me. Because it's about him and her and what they've been through together. I JUST HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS ABOUT THIS, and nobody ever talks about it, but it is very important to how I view them. So the fact that you feel the same way makes me giddy with happiness.

And if you ever did write that meta, I would probably die of love. So.

. I love how you bring Buffy to the slow realization as internal subsumes external and Spike changes in her eyes- not necessarily through his own actions (because he's still the same to her, even reformed, even trying to be better)- but through her own development.

YES. You get me!

Thank you so, so much! I'm so happy you connected to it!

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Whoa - a very believable and sad look into Buffy's brain. Well done.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much. Her brain is one of my favorite places to visit, but it often is a sad place, isn't it?

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

HOW ARE YOU THE ACTUAL BEST. YOU SHOULD WRITE A TEN-STEP GUIDE FOR THE REST OF US.

I love this. Because - I was thinking in terms of, you know, MYSELF which is my favorite topic? But of course there's some implicit judgment on the characters, too, when there's that "why would she like him." And specifically, I really agree that Buffy would have absorbed a lot of this stuff; she's as great a character as she is in part because she struggles with those heavily gendered expectations in a way that I think is pretty relatable for a lot of us. And then it does make sense that she would go into the WHY SPIKE?!? surprise and latch onto the gender performance aspect as a distraction from the general OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS of S6.

he thought plagues her at night that maybe she wasn’t woman enough for him

God, yes, it was so easy for everyone (Riley, and Buffy, and the AUDIENCE, my GOD) to fall into blaming her with gender-conformity bullshit.

she imagines what those giggly girls who remind her of some of Cordelia’s crowd would think if they saw her with Spike

OH SNAP.

Spike, though, seems to have no limits, and she would have thought that that would make her feel inadequate...Except she never really heard of a guy who was as…orally fixated as he is.

Yes. I like how you contextualize this, though I hadn't thought of it - even the energy of their sex life really doesn't fit into that traditional gendered mold, because there's so much "EW GIRLS" ground into the uglier masculinity conventions.

And it’s in those times that she’s most certain: something has to be wrong with her.

Oh dear Lord. But yeah, she would be conditioned to think that.

ANYWAY, you are amazing.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

OH THANK YOU SO MUCH! :D

And specifically, I really agree that Buffy would have absorbed a lot of this stuff; she's as great a character as she is in part because she struggles with those heavily gendered expectations in a way that I think is pretty relatable for a lot of us. And then it does make sense that she would go into the WHY SPIKE?!? surprise and latch onto the gender performance aspect as a distraction from the general OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS of S6.

OKAY YES. This is exactly what I was thinking and I'll just say again: it is so important to me that Spike is not Buffy's type. That she falls for him despite the fact that he so isn't who she'd pick for herself, that a large part of her falling for him is in A) how she changes and becomes less and less "feminine" and more and more "masculine" and can then embrace Spike's "femininity," and B) how much they've been through together and just being in each others' lives over time. Iris Murdoch says, "Love is what you've been through with someone," and that is SO TRUE for these two.

Anyway.

God, yes, it was so easy for everyone (Riley, and Buffy, and the AUDIENCE, my GOD) to fall into blaming her with gender-conformity bullshit.

I knoooooow! It made me think of that article that you linked to once about Buffy being a testosterone vampire. Gah, that thing was so, so sick.

- even the energy of their sex life really doesn't fit into that traditional gendered mold, because there's so much "EW GIRLS" ground into the uglier masculinity conventions.
Totally agreed. And think of the way their initial encounter starts: with her shoving him into the wall and hitching herself up on him and unzipping and he's looking up at her. UP AT HER. OH THESE TWO AND THEIR GENDER FLIPPINESS I AM SO OBSESSED.

But yeah, she would be conditioned to think that.

I think so. It makes me want to hug her.

Thank you so much for getting it. It thrills me.

[singer-shaper.livejournal.com]

DUDE. What an amazing look into Spike's character and why Buffy feels so thrown by him. And happy birthday!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU! There's nothing about Spike that Buffy's comfortable with, and that's one of the things I love so much about them together. And thanks!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! Yeah, I definitely intentionally picked that word since it's gendered as female but can so readily be applied to Spike.

Everything was very in character, especially for the reader's POV when we ask ourselves (Well, when I do, anyway...) *why* she would be attracted to him.

That's exactly what I was going for! Thank you!

[next_to_normal]

First: HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Have a dancing Ainsley:



Second: LOVE! I really enjoyed the meta-ness of it and Buffy going through all the ways that Spike is totally not her type (although I admit to being a tad skeptical that she wouldn't find Spike attractive *g* OMG GIRL HAVE YOU SEEN HIM?) and how so much of it aligns with gender expectations. Because of course the girl who falls for Tall, Dark, and Handsome and the All-American Boy would find Spike's femininity disconcerting. (Though, interestingly, she was drawn to Parker because he was ~sensitive and talked about his feelings - not so unlike Spike, actually, except that it was all an act with Parker.)

It's funny, though, how a lot of what makes them work as a couple are all the ways he's not her type? But of course, I don't think Buffy is consciously aware of all the ways she is gender-bendy, so she wouldn't see that Spike's gender-bending matches hers so well. :)

Hey, look! Your fic prompted thinky thoughts! (That's the best!)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yay! Dancing Ainsley! Nothing better! Thank you!

although I admit to being a tad skeptical that she wouldn't find Spike attractive

See, I kind of didn't at first! I also wasn't that bowled over by Angel, either (and that hasn't changed), but it took me a while to warm to Spike, and the girls I know who have seen the show and are most like Buffy (or who Buffy started out as) all don't find him attractive at all. I absolutely don't think she necessarily found him hot in S2. But that's total conjecture on my part.

Because of course the girl who falls for Tall, Dark, and Handsome and the All-American Boy would find Spike's femininity disconcerting.

YES.

It's funny, though, how a lot of what makes them work as a couple are all the ways he's not her type? But of course, I don't think Buffy is consciously aware of all the ways she is gender-bendy, so she wouldn't see that Spike's gender-bending matches hers so well. :)

YES YES YES. She's so very gender-bendy, and more so as the seasons go by, but I think that at least up until S6/7, she still thinks of herself as a girly girl.

Yay for thinky-thoughts! Thanks so much!

[ellievanna.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, this is amazing! One of the things I love about them is that they aren't the 'classical' couple, that they are the ones that shouldn't work, but then they grow together and suddenly they do work and it's an awesome thing. The entire fic is just so true to Buffy and that specific point in canon and that's all the coherency I can manage but I love it to pieces! And happy birthday!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much!

that they are the ones that shouldn't work, but then they grow together and suddenly they do work and it's an awesome thing.

YES! This is always how I've seen them, and to me this is so much more powerful than an idea of soulmates or destiny or fated love. It's one of the reasons they speak to me so much.

Thank you again--I'm so glad you enjoyed it!

[gryfndor-godess.livejournal.com]

Aaldfjlakfj, this fic is BEAUTIFUL and moving and sad and yet also uplifting, and I want to hug it. I also want to hug Buffy. And Spike.

or maybe it really is that she came back wrong, maybe even the first time she died.

Ooh, I really like the idea that she might think she came back wrong as far back as S1. That's possibly even more painful, thinking that her "wrongness" has been an ongoing thing and she's already too far gone to "fix" herself.

She likes men who exude that kind of football-playing All-American manliness, stoic and competent.

Such a good description of her type! Football isn't a word I would immediately think of, given its lack of relevance to the show and Buffy's life, but it so fits.

He’s short, for one thing, and way skinnier under the folds of his duster than she’s ever found herself drawn to. His face is a little too pretty and narrow, and that stupid hair doesn’t help anything.

I really like the imagery and how different you make her viewpoint from ours (or mine, at least; it occurs to me that I don't actually know if you love JM on a physical level as well as on a Fantastic!Actor!level).

There’s something so hungry and eager and earnest in him

That's such a good description of him. It also makes him sound a little like a puppy, when read out of context. :D

she doesn’t know what to do with that level of vulnerability from a guy. The fact that he keeps putting all his feelings out there means that she has to deal with them, has to acknowledge them, and she is just not down with that at all.

I feel like I'm just repeating myself here saying that all these feelings and descriptions make sense, but they do, and it's lovely, so I'm just going to keep repeating myself.

Spike, in his stubborn, stupid way personifies commitment,

Love it.

But she could pinpoint the exact moment it kind of began to make sense to her...and she thought, “He’s beautiful.”

*melts*

she’d quite easily determined that it was just because of the spell that she’d enjoyed herself so much.

That's what I always thought she would tell herself about it afterward.

want to paint their nails together and stuff?

OMG, now I really want a future!fic of them painting nails together, it would be so bizarre and cool.

his desperate, obvious, vulnerable craving to be loved just terrifies her.

I wonder if it terrifies her not only because it's centered on her but also because there's a part of her that identifies with it? She isn't obvious about it, but when it comes to being loved by specific men in her life, she feels just as vulnerable (constantly abandoned) and desperate for their affection/presence (her dad, Giles, Angel, etc.). Maybe she's terrified of Spike finding that love (especially in her), because if an evil vampire can find someone to love him like that, what does it say about her that she can't?

the feeling that it’s so good that her skin is going to slide right off of her bones

I feel like imagery of skin sliding off bones shouldn't be hot, but in this context, it really, really is. :D

she’s the entire universe in human form

Perfect description!!

"sometimes she finds a place inside her that craves Spike’s kind of loving, type of giving, brand of honesty.
And it’s in those times that she’s most certain: something has to be wrong with her."

Aadlkfjladkjfldkjfaldfkjadlfjladkfj.

Saying S6 is not my cup-of-tea season is an understatement and I generally steer clear of S6 fic because I can't usually bear Buffy (and/or Spike) being in that much pain (I realize the, um, irony of saying this in light of what I posted earlier), but this is beautiful and actually makes me happy (usually the most S6 fic can give me is appreciation for really good writing. which this does, too, of course). But I love how you've parsed out her thought process so that her feelings make sense and how even though she's depressed and dismayed, she's not hateful.

And lastly, I have to say happy birthday again, even though I already said it on Tumblr, because I'm sure to look back on this fic months or years from now and I won't remember Tumblr and I'll wonder why I was such a bad friend and didn't say it. So Happy Birthday! :D

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I always want to hug these kids. THEY ARE SUCH MESSES AND I LOVE THEM FOR IT.

I really like the imagery and how different you make her viewpoint from ours (or mine, at least; it occurs to me that I don't actually know if you love JM on a physical level as well as on a Fantastic!Actor!level).

I think she just looks at him completely differently than most of his fangirls do. We like to write fic about her immediately being, as Snick says, overcome with lust for him, but I just don't think that's in character until S6, after she's made a very long journey. (And yes, I love him on a physical level as well. :D I didn't start out that way, but at this point: yes.)

It also makes him sound a little like a puppy, when read out of context. :D

HE IS SUCH A PUPPY. Also a dramatic fourteen-year-old girl. All reasons I love him.

That's what I always thought she would tell herself about it afterward.

I can't think of her thinking of it any other way, honestly.

OMG, now I really want a future!fic of them painting nails together, it would be so bizarre and cool.

I would definitely read this. And enjoy it.

but also because there's a part of her that identifies with it? She isn't obvious about it, but when it comes to being loved by specific men in her life, she feels just as vulnerable (constantly abandoned) and desperate for their affection/presence (her dad, Giles, Angel, etc.).

ABSOLUTELY.

she's not hateful.

I don't think she's actually hateful very much in S6? She might sometimes hate herself, but I don't think Buffy's the type to hate other people. She'd feel guilty about it. So it makes more sense to me that she's terrified and tired and just so worn down, and so even when she does things that look hateful (like, say, beating Spike up in "Dead Things"), it's really coming from a place of fear. I don't think she really hates Spike at all, even if she might want to.

Anyway, I am absolutely thrilled that you enjoyed it. It was so satisfying for me to write on an id-type level, and I'm never sure if those kinds of fics are going to only work for me or whether others will connect to it, so I'm SO HAPPY that you did. And thank you thank you for the birthday wish! (It made me giggle!)

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

YOU SPOIL US SO.

Tasty, tasty meta-fic is tasty. I want to get all thinky and deep and quotey here, but everyone else has pretty much covered it in comments. I LOVE EVERYONE IN THIS BAR. \o/

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Everyone's so good to me and so awesome, how can I not? :D

Thank you! I'm so glad you liked it! Yay!

[snickfic]

Happy birthday to you! And YAY, birthdayfic! Birthdayfic from you is always exciting.

I find it fascinating here how you have Buffy so hung up on how Spike just doesn't make sense to her as a guy. I don't think I've ever thought of that precisely that aspect of her make-up; it hadn't occurred to me that the same very conventional gender expectations that she grew up and make cheerleading and being homecoming queen look like the pinnacle of successful normality to her would also affect how she looks at Spike, but now that you say it, it makes a lot of sense. But really I just want to echo what Poco says above about Buffy getting hung up on Spike's gender perfomance as a distraction from EVERYTHING ELSE.

This, this was really fascinating. Thank you so much for gifting us with it. *hugs*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much!

I have always had a lot of feelings about how Spike is not Buffy's type and I don't think she'd start out being attracted to him and that she'd always be weirded out by the fact that she is, and then when I read Poco's meta, I went OF COURSE, and I basically just spilled my feelings all over the page in a rush. It was kind of a chemical reaction thing. Very satisfying to the id.

But really I just want to echo what Poco says above about Buffy getting hung up on Spike's gender perfomance as a distraction from EVERYTHING ELSE.

So true! Basically everything about Spike is unsuitable. I looove when she tells him he's just convenient, because nothing about Spike has ever been convenient. It's such a lie, but such an in character lie. I love it.

Thank you so much again! And you're very welcome! *hugs*

[treadingthedark.livejournal.com]

Fantastic. Loved it, and the essay that inspired it. Thanks.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much, and you're so welcome!

[spufster.livejournal.com]

Uh, brand new reader to your site, but I completely loved this. What's so good about this thinky-fic is that this is pretty much the same process I had with falling in love with Spike. I started watching Buffy mid season 6 (such a weird place to start) and I was all, "what's up with this Spike guy? He's not attractive at all." And then by mid season 7, I was just like SOLD SOLD. Also, do you mind if I add you to my flist, I love a good meta read.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much! And that's really cool that it mirrors your experience. And sure--go ahead and add!

[lutamira]

First: Happy Birthday!

Second: This is an awesome piece of work and it made me think about Buffy and Spike in completely new ways. I had never really thought of it before, but I think you are totally right about Spike not being Buffy's type, and about that being as much about her own self-perception (of being an ultra-feminine girly-girl) as it is about the object of her gaze. It's a total epiphany for me because Spike is totally my type, and I guess I kind of always assumed he was therefore everyone's type too, including Buffy's. In hindsight, I realize this is a bit of an oblivious attitude, considering that I find Riley and Angel actively distasteful since the all-American, rugged, manly-man thing is really off-putting to me. But your story made me think about how I would feel if a guy I ended up falling for over and over again was outside my comfort zone. I feel like I understand Buffy waaaay better now. Thanks for writing and sharing this!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! Yeah, there's a big gap between my type and Buffy's. I'm with you:

considering that I find Riley and Angel actively distasteful since the all-American, rugged, manly-man thing is really off-putting to me

Totally, totally agree. And yet Buffy is clearly drawn to that and her self-perception just enhances that. So yeah, this:

how I would feel if a guy I ended up falling for over and over again was outside my comfort zone.

is exactly what I was going for.

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for your thoughts!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

No, she really isn't. :D And I'm sure she knows that.

I did say above the fic that since it's such an embedded Buffy pov that she would say things that I don't believe/aren't true. She's exaggerating exactly because she's so uncomfortable.

It's definitely your prerogative to think that Buffy would him attractive right off, but I don't think you can say her having eyes has anything to do with it. I definitely didn't find him at all attractive at first, and I'm a straight woman. He had to grow on me before I found him hot. There isn't anyone on the planet who is hot to everyone, and, frankly, I'm a little uncomfortable with the insinuation that there are some people are flat-out attractive and that everyone with "eyes" will find them so. You can think that Buffy would find him so, but please don't tell me that everyone should. The insinuation there is that I'm abnormal because I didn't, and I don't like that at all.

And I didn't really think Dru was pretty at first, either. I still don't think she's conventionally pretty, and I think you could just as easily interpret Buffy picking the word pretty because she was coming from a place of jealousy re: Angel.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that even Parker doesn't resemble Spike in any way; he's much closer to the Angel/Riley side of the spectrum than he is to the Spike side. I'm not saying she's exclusively attracted to that type, but that she sees herself with that type because of her own view of her own gender performance. She's the cheerleader girly-girl; the captain of the football team is the type they date when they have the choice. It about social conditioning.

I really don't believe she thought about Spike as "Xander or Giles". She thought of Giles as "old" and always mocked the idea of someone finding him sexy since he's old and stuffy (which is one of the things I found annoying about her in early seasons, BTW, but I can see why she found him too stuffy and adult)

Again, the point of the story is that Buffy's pushing everything to hyperbole in her head because of how uncomfortable she is. Either you didn't pick up on that or I did a bad job of communicating it, because that was at the heart of what I was trying to say.

The idea that the Cordettes would laugh when they saw Buffy and Spike together just rings untrue. They might be 'horrified' because he looks like bad news, but there's no way they would think he was unattractive

Again, it's really, really bothering me that you think that there's no way anyone can find him attractive. Because, again, I didn't, and I know several other people who didn't either. You're basically saying that there's either something wrong with me or trying to write my experience out of existence. And fourteen-year-old girls do not have the widest definitions of what's attractive. In my experience, they pretty much stick to what they're comfortable with and don't push the boundaries of that.

You can't get a more vapid, shallow, society-conditioned Cordette than Harmony, and she was head over heels in love with Spike.

This is a good point, though the affect of vampirism on that is something that could be debated at length.

Buffy being as upset by his necklace as by his remark about fucking and killing Slayers... I really don't think so.

Again: hyperbole, hyperbole, hyperbole. That's the point. Of course it didn't upset her as much.

[boot-the-grime.livejournal.com]

One other thing, I think Buffy's attitude to Spike was probably just like Spike's attitude to Buffy pre-dream in Out of My Mind, except she didn't voice it: Spike called Buffy "Hello, cutie" in season 2 and "Hello, gorgeous" in season 4, but he also mocked her "shampoo commercial hair" and gave her nicknames like "Little Rebecca of Sunnyhell farm". He did think of her as attractive but I'm sure he told himself that she really wasn't his type.

Like, you know, "Yes, I can certainly see why some other guys/girls would find her/him attractive, but I'm really not into that kind of girl/guy!"

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Like, you know, "Yes, I can certainly see why some other guys/girls would find her/him attractive, but I'm really not into that kind of girl/guy!"

Which is exactly a point I made in the story, it just took her a bit of time for her to get there.

[lunna798.livejournal.com]

Just a question -- do you consider the Buffy movie as cannon to the series? If so then I think that Pike fits, to a lesser degree, into the Spike mold. Even her boyfriend at the begining (whose name I can't remember -- though I can remember he is played by Randall Batinkoff lol) while tall and dark isn't the huge, hulking mass that both Angel and Reilly were. But even disregarding him, Pike had the cheekbones, the shorter, leaner frame -- he was "Spike-lite" and he talked -- alot. I have never read anything on the writers take on Pike/Spike and how, if at all, they view the similarities. But I was just curious if you had thought about that while you were writing this.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I've never seen the movie, to be honest, so no, I mostly don't consider it canon. I think the fandom reaction to the movie is that it's canon that Buffy burned down her high school gym (this is, of course, mentioned on the TV show), but beyond that most people don't pay attention to it at all. But of course there's always room for people who do!

I think a comparison of Pike and Spike could be hugely interesting, though! I just couldn't contribute since I know nothing about Pike!

[lunna798.livejournal.com]

Thanks -- I haven't read any of the comics though I do try to get the jist of what is going on to keep up with some of the fanfic.

I know alot of people don't like the movie (Joss included) and that it tends to be ignored when Buffy's history is mentioned in fanfic. You might get a Merrick mention but I think I have only seen one fic that mentions Pike in any sort of depth.

I liked Pike as a character and I did enjoy the movie for the cheese factor alone.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I read a few of S8 and if S9 turns out okay, I'll probably get around to reading it, but I haven't read the bulk of them, either. But it's very useful to have a working knowledge of them in order to read fic--there's some fantastic fic set in the world of the comcis.

I've heard that Pike is a pretty great character, so I'm sure I'd like him if I ever watched the movie. Maybe I'll get around to it one of these days!

[sarian71]

This was a very enjoyable read. I loved Buffy's rambly stream of consciousness thoughts and how she desperately tried to figure out the Spike shaped curveball life's thrown her way.

The unexpectedness of Spuffy has always deeply fascinated me, and I love how you explored it here. I also love how it in some way reminded me of this one quote from a fic I read long time ago. I can't remember the title or the author of it, but the quote has stayed with me to this day: "She was firmly looking to the east as he came strutting from the west." So yeah, Spike might not be Buffy's type, but in the end, that makes it all that much sweeter and meaningful!

Happy belated birthday! :)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! I'm very pleased that you enjoyed it!

The unexpectedness of Spuffy has always deeply fascinated me,

Oh, yes! Whatever else fandom may disagree on, I think we can mostly all agree that Buffy never saw her feelings for him coming!

I can't remember the title or the author of it, but the quote has stayed with me to this day: "She was firmly looking to the east as he came strutting from the west." So yeah, Spike might not be Buffy's type, but in the end, that makes it all that much sweeter and meaningful!

Oh, that is a FANTASTIC quote! And I agree--the unexpectedness enhances everything about these two.

Thanks again!

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Finally found time to read it without haste. Brilliant stuff! Buffy's take on her relationship with Spike and on love life is mesmerizing.

Belated congrats with Happy Birthday!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for the birthday wish!

[rambler18.livejournal.com]

Again--this is just fantastic!! You really have their voices down!

[ladymirth.livejournal.com]

I do believe you've hit the nail on the head. I love it when people write Spuffy the way I see and love them - how they work DESPITE how mismatched and dysfunctional and against-type they are. Its like when Molly Ringwald's character in the Breakfast Club ended up getting with John Bender's wrong-side-of-the-tracks criminally-inclined class screw-up.

I hate it when writers try to make Spike out as this uber-cool Master vampire or some kind of saint who patiently bears Buffy's villainy. To me, Spike's appeal is rooted in a)his unselfconscious ridiculousness and b)his status as the eternal outcast in all his incarnations - as a ridiculed poet, as a vampire who defies all convention, as the troublesome youngest childe of the Whirlwind, as a peripheral Scoobie and as a souled vampire. Its not because everyone else is being unreasonable; its because its in Spike's very nature to want things with such intensity that he invariably ends up alienating the very thing he does want. This is why, I think, his plans always go so awry while his fists and fangs and death and glory approach always works out best for him.

Buffy is as a creature of extremes as Spike is, and yet Buffy drives me nuts in ways Spike doesn't. I think its because of her utter and complete lack of anything resembling self-awareness and her pathological need to see things in black and white. Really, it's scary how alike she and Angel are. They both so unmerciful with themselves and their own views of morality, they need to operate on deep-seated certainties of who and what they are. Any threat to the established order of their universe results in them flipping the hell out (as noted in Buffy's behaviour toward Spike and Angel voluntarily banging Darla to lose his soul). Of all the people in the Buffyverse, Buffy and Angel are the characters who develop least. I think its Spike's own anti-thetical openness and innate adaptability that makes him such a great foil to both characters.

Er, I started out to leave you an actual review. As I said, I think you've captured Buffy's inner California Valley-girl conformist perfectly. I love how she never thinks that maybe she and her preferences have changed over time, instead of ascribing everything to something deeply and fundamentally wrong with her. That set-in-stone conviction of hers at work again! I wonder whether it's because she can't accept change in herself that she can never seem to see the changes in others. Change does not equal evil, Buffy!

Really, your fic made me want to shake her till her teeth rattled, to maybe knock loose some of that residual Homecoming Queenness and make space for some much-needed emotional intelligence.

I do think that her moral convictions also play a large role in her rejecting Spike, however. She's conditioned to believe that demons cannot love, aren't people and should not be treated as such. I actually agree that sleeping with Spike is at the very least a betrayal of her calling - he's still a demon and she's playing with fire (not that I blame her for it, considering the poor girl's PTSD'd to hell). Allowing herself to believe that someone soulless can still be a person for whom she could have legitimate feelings would mean to see herself as a killer rather than a slayer.