Oh, God

[lirazel]

I had sworn I wasn't going to do the link-to-whedonesque thing anymore. I'm sure it annoys y'all that I constantly have to scurry back here to get reassurance. I really am going to try to do it less in the future.

But this one time, I have to get my rage out. I'm feeling sick to my stomach and shaky.

Someone on whedonesque just made the most ridiculously sexist, homophobic, patronizing, self-congratulatory comment about shipping ever. And I am ANGRY.

Quote:

Saying that everything has to come down to some ship is kind of insulting. I know you probably weren't meaning to be. But.

I'm not a shipper. You can tell by how I'm a heterosexual adult man. I just like a good story.

Shipping itself is, in my humble opinion, not just stupid but destructive to the fandom. The story is what is what it is (and I'm including the TV show in this), but I can't comment on what actually has happened because it'll offend people who think things should be another way.

Let's say I decide that Riley should have been Buffy's true love, and regardless of what happens in the show, I get angry when she hooks up with anyone else. Doesn't matter that the events clearly show that that's not happening. Im'ma get pissed anyway. See how stupid that would be?

[eta] EMPHASIS HIS.

I...just...WTF?????

I called him on it. How much you wanna bet that he'll pull the whole "oversensitive" card?

It's okay. I will link the hell out of Derailing for Dummies. Never fear.

Comments

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh! That one is awesome, too!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

He did. I'm glad you went for it.

YES. hkath had a post recently about using the phrase "like a twelve-year-old girl" disparagingly that was really awesome. And I was flashing back to it the whole time. When I wasn't seeing red with rage.

I'd like you to "play" with him, too. Like Vamp!Willow and the Puppy.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

I remember that post. Very relevant.

Cause, see, heterosexual adult males sit at the pinnacle of the pyramid of rationality (and intelligence and competence and...wait why is a women trying to explain this anyway? This is Man Work!).

*goes back to mindlessly squee over Spike's cheekbones*

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, check out what I'm running into at Buffy Forums. There's men trying to talk about feminism and just NOT GETTING IT AT ALL.

WHY??? Why talk about something you know nothing about it and act like you're an authority who gets to pass judgment?

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Okay, that just makes me want to cry.

And flail.

And cry some more.

Feminism should be common sense, people!

[that-september.livejournal.com]

Ugh.

Well, since he's a heterosexual adult male, and so very straight and manly and sensible, I have no doubt he'll educate you on the error of your shipping, womanly, hysterical ways.

I can see it now: "All right, let's just calm down, lady. I wasn't attacking you, just expressing my opinion, and being the hysterical feminazi that you are, you blew it way out of proportion."

Then he'll throw in something about he's not sexist or homophobic, no doubt, and inform you his problem is with shipping.

Good for you for standing up to this.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I actually have some history with KingofCretins and he sometimes doesn't get it. But he's always a very logical person. He's also a lawyer, so he likes arguing. Just imagine him as Marshall trying to lawyer your ass, only toss in some Barney arrogance.

We've always gotten along pretty well, though we've disagreed a lot. The thing about King is that if he's wrong and you show him in a logical manner how he's wrong, he'll admit it. Like, he was angry about this issue and included a negative comment about Buffy, blaming her and I just called him to task on it. (Basically, he fell into the angry man acting sexist trap of blaming the woman.) I explained to him how blaming Buffy for what's happening would be like blaming Veronica for getting raped in Season 1 (he's also a Veronica fan!). And he admitted that he was wrong. We moved on.

But yep. I've totally been agreeing with him again and again ever since the Twilight reveal, so I'm right there with you.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I KNOW. I just... *flails*


Uhhhh. I need help responding to this. I just don't know what to say.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

As if Bangel!Boinking!Day wasn't going to be bad enough . . . the douchebags are out in force. This really, really irks me when in the context of recent heated LJ conversations about representation of women in comics, but now we got to deal with this? Like I said in all facetiousness on your last post, I never self-identified as a feminist until I got into Buffy. It's really sad to see the side of fandom that doesn't find her empowering.

There is so much fail implicit in this guy's post. Even other heterosexual adult men are marginalized by this guy because they may be shippers. Good for him! Alienating even his own kind!

[prophecygirrl.livejournal.com]

OK, INSTANT INCANDESCENT RAGE!

Where are my laser beam eyes when I need them?

I've stayed away from whedonesque today. Maybe I'll look tomorrow. But, I'm glad you called him on it.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Dude. He lives in a world where men holds the power. He watches media that is almost exclusively produced, written, and directed by men (Yes! This includes BtVS!).

I'd say sidestep the privilege argument (cause that could get into a tangent). But let him know that women's voices, to this day, still largely go unheard and dismissed. So, yes, when discussing issues involving women and feminism, it's kinda awesome for the men to step back and let women have the floor for once. In any group dynamic, men will tend to dominate the conversation (if he wants studies, I can probably find them). That's his fucking privilege, and he's not even aware of it. That's just "normal" to him. But for women? It means that we end up sitting and listening to guys talk all the time, but when we try to take up at least half of the conversation? We're perceived as taking it over completely.

So yeah, dude, STFU and let the chicks talk. Sheesh.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I'm too flail-y to edit my typos and bad grammar.

Make it sound pretty, hon.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I'm so bad at arguing this. I need to be like, you, or something.

Can I steal some of your words above? Quoting you?

[prophecygirrl.livejournal.com]

Did I ever tell you the story of my HS Drama teacher? He was surprised to find I liked sci-fi, because girls "aren't usually intelligent and patient enough to get into that".

True. Story.

But at least I know where all this rage on "shippers as bad fans" comes from. I haz had a breakthrough, right here on your LJ!

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Go for it. Though I'd de-rage it first (You know, make it sound not-as-angry). Keeping a level tone is a key debate strategy.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm not so good at this. Sigh.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I'm frantically reading through to catch up, but I just got to the part where he was offended that you said he had privilige as a man.

Send him here. Make it clear that by the definition of privilege, all men have male privilege.

I'll get back to you on other things!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

You are! You're doing a great job! With your powerful words!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, goody! A flounce!

BEING TOLD YOU'RE A SECOND CLASS CITIZEN BECAUSE OF YOUR GENDER??? WELCOME TO BEING A WOMAN. WE FEEL LIKE THAT ALL THE DAMN TIME.

Oh, God. I don't know if I have the patience to do this for the rest of my life. So often I feel like I spend vast portions of my life doing Feminism 101 for people that I could spend being, you know, happy.

GAH!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

*headesk forever*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

That's good to know. It makes me like him more, that he's willing to admit when he's wrong. And I knew you were agreeing with him, too! I remembered that!

Also, your icon is fantastic in this context.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

You're fab. Seriously, I'm glad that you frequent the non-LJ places. That means you give out the smackdowns that I can't.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Cause, see, heterosexual adult males sit at the pinnacle of the pyramid of rationality (and intelligence and competence EXACTLY. That's exactly what he was saying!

Ooooh! Cheekbones! *drools*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Preach, sister.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

He just shut down the communication and told me to stuff basically. That he wouldn't be talking to me period.

Why do men keep doing this to me????

UGH.

I've sent him Private Messages with that link btw. We'll see if he acknowledges them.