lirazel | getting list-y with it

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getting list-y with it

So that episode of Downton Abbey did some weird things to me.

Things that made me happy:

+ MARY'S FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE. You know what I'm talking about. SHE STOPPED SINGING AND THEN EVERYONE ELSE DID TOO.

+ Edith continuing to be HBIC running things and being the one people go to when they need things to happen. AND THIS IS TWO EPISODES IN A ROW WHERE SHE HAS MADE GOOD LIFE CHOICES. KEEP IT UP, GIRLFRIEND.

+ Cora's reaction when she found out about the soup kitchen. CORA I LOVE YOU.

+ O'Brien laying the smackdown on Thomas for speaking ill of Mr. Lang. That plotline humanizes her so much. I wish he'd come back so we'd get more of her being excellent.

+ Mary actually believing that Edith told her about Matthew because it was the right thing to do. MORE SISTERLY INTERACTIONS PLEASE.

+ Mary being the one to figure out what was going on with Sybil. Basically, this was a great Mary episode. As most episodes are. She's definitely got the most excellent construction.

+ That brief moment of Anna being the one who comforts Mary. I want to see more of them interacting please.

+ Daisy got more screentime this episode, didn't she? It felt like it.

+ VIOLET WINNING AT LIFE. EVERYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF HER MOUTH IS GOOOOOOLDEN. And the look on her face when everyone else was singing! And her talking about how they're all used to Matthew now! OMG BE THE STAR OF THIS SHOW.

Things that made me nervous:

+ The fact that William didn't die. Look, I know that makes me a horrible person, but I am SO CONCERNED FOR DAISY. And he is so oblivious to the fact that BUDDY SHE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU and I just want this plotline to be over with Daisy not being sucked into this thing she doesn't want.

+ Mr. Bates coming back. Simply because that means that there's no chance of Anna getting a plotline that doesn't have anything to do with him. PLEASE GIVE HER SOMETHING ELSE TO DO. SHE IS SO EXCELLENT IN EVERY WAY.

Things that made me sadface:

+ Poor Mr. Moseley. He never gets what he wants, does he? Nothing ever goes right for him. Basically his life sucks.

+ Ethel being pregnant. Poor girl. That guy is a smarmy git, and I don't think he'll care at all.

Things that made me cackle but feel bad:

+ Cora and Isobel facing off. Like, I cackled because Cora was so badass and casual about it. But I felt bad because I hate that sort of cattiness. Also because I feel like this season is just making Isobel into a pure control freak, and I think that's sad.

Things that made me roll my eyes:

+ The voice-over of Sybil "remembering" what Branson had said to her. UUUUUUGH. I trust this show to trust me to know what she's pondering without TELLING ME. You insulted my intelligence, show.

Things that made me angry:

+ Branson's dialogue. I like that Sybil can see that he is kind of full of himself, BUT. Telling her her feelings? And not in an "I think" sort of way but straight out with no room for debate. UGH. And then he totally dismissed the work she does? Um, the whole reason I shipped them was because I felt like he would value that and support her in it. Basically this episode killed my love for that ship, and unless he apologizes or something in the future, I will not be into this, and I HATE that because I liked that ship so much!

Also, in case you missed it, I posted a Downton Abbey race!swap casting yesterday. :D

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I was spoiled ahead of time for Ethel, but still. D: If they turn this into her being punished for being forward, above herself, etc, I'm going to be so furious.

(Also: yeah, sorry William. My priority is Daisy being happy, and if that means you getting shot, it's openj season as far as I'm concerned.)

See, the thing about Ethel is that she made a bad choice because it put her job in jeopardy. It had nothing to do with her and her dreams. So if they tie it to that, it would just be stupid.

(Yeah, it would have solved our problem, wouldn't it?)

ICON TWINS!

Yyyyyyeah, it was stupid, but it seems so . . . she had Ideas, and now look what's become of her! Plus I'm just so bugged by the fact that the only expressions of female sexuality on this show have been:

1. Mary being raped by Pamuk (and used as a bargaining chip ever since without it ever being acknowledged as non-consensual)
2. Ethel sleeping with the soldier and immediately being horribly, horribly punished.

It just rubs me the wrong way. :/

Edited 2011-10-10 17:38 (UTC)

I was tearing up for Ethel in this episode. I'm not sure I'd be angry if the story did go in the route where characters punished her -- because I feel like that's what would have happened. I'd be really angry and disappointed if everyone punished her and there was no dissenting POV, just that the show presented it like 'duh, the maid got pregnant and it's all her fault.' Because hello, she had sex, how DARE she? And how dare she interact socially with one of her betters? That would cause rage.

I APPROVE OF ALL OF YOUR FEELINGS.

MAAAAARY AND HER FACE OMGGGGGG. Everyome stopped singing! And then Matthew sang with her!

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

(I so desperately wanted Matthew to realize how upset she was when he was missing. I am shipping these two SO HARD. Get it together, kids!!)

VIOLET IS HILARIOUS. MORE VIOLET, PLZ.

I feel conflicted about Ethel. Because, like, I WANT to like her, but I kind of can't stand how rude she is? I get that she has dreams and wants to improve her station. And that's fab, but does she really have to disparage service work IN FRONT OF ALL THE OTHER SERVANTS? I mean, "don't insult your coworkers to their faces" is kind of basic etiquette, isn't it? Especially when they've told her to can it a dozen times. So I was kind of glad she got fired, but then PREGNANCY. So. I dunno.

Yeah, agreed about Isobel, though. :( I was just thinking this episode, wow I really don't like her anymore. Which is sad, because she was so fab last season, and I want her to stop being so obnoxious.

UGH Branson, you are on my shit list. Sybil deserves better!! I was already kind of pissed at him from last week (like, I get that you have legit Irish issues, but THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE) and that already proved that he doesn't respect Sybil's opinion, so I am done. *spits* We shall speak of him no more.

YAY FEELINGS!

(Hello!)

I think Mary and Matthew will be endgame. Mary is clearly a favorite of the writer, so I don't think he'll not let her end up with him. Now, they may both get married to other people or something between now and then, but I think they're endgame.

No, I don't actually like Ethel, either. She is very, very rude. But I also don't want to see her "punished" and it feels like it's going that direction? Plus, I just feel bad for anyone in that situation, regardless of whether they're obnoxious or not. But no: not a fan of her.

I was just thinking this episode, wow I really don't like her anymore. Which is sad, because she was so fab last season, and I want her to stop being so obnoxious.

I KNOW! I am so disappointed for this very reason.

I actually wasn't mad at him last week. I mean, the dumping nastiness on the guy plan? Stupid. But he wasn't going to hurt anyone, really, just get sacked, and I think his anger is very justified. But at least up until now he treated Sybil with respect. But BOOM! One episode and that's all gone. UGH. I am really upset about this, because I shipped them so hard last season!

Now, they may both get married to other people or something between now and then, but I think they're endgame.

Yeah, agreed that they're endgame. But marrying other people seems... I dunno, I can't really see them getting divorced, so then I'm kinda hoping for Lavinia and what's-his-name to die?

But I also don't want to see her "punished" and it feels like it's going that direction?

Yeah, exactly. My conflict is that I want to stand up for any character in her situation, but it's really hard because I don't like her. :-P

But at least up until now he treated Sybil with respect.

See, I saw last week as a hint that he didn't respect her all that much. She made it clear she didn't want him to do anything stupid, and he disregarded her opinion. It was telling in this episode the way Sybil said, "Oh, so you'll stop with the rebellious acts when Carson asks, but not for me?" (And I think the fact that it was so stupid makes it worse. I could understand if he were placing his principles above his feelings for her - by, say, joining the rebellion in Ireland - but this was just pointless, petty revenge, not about defending his beliefs at all.)

Uh, I kind of liked the Branson/Sybil stuff? Not because I approve of his behavior, because he certainly was awful, but because it shows an interesting thing. Branson is a communist, so at first we perceive him as a freedom fighter and we sort of sympathize with him, because we feel he is "on our side of the fence", against the old order. And that's who he is, to some extent. But communism is not liberalism, and it's not feminism. Most of the communists back then just thought they knew better than other people, and that they had a right to tell others what to do. The communists were going to make the people happy, whether those people liked it or not; they assumed on principle that others were wrong should be taught how to think properly (of course it's a horrible generalization, but there were many people like that, and Branson certainly fits the pattern; he is a "stereotypical" communist). And that's EXACTLY what Branson does with Sybil!

So of course I'm sorry on Sybil's behalf that a guy she's in love with (is she?) turned out to be such a jerk, but my first reaction was: "SQUEEEEE! HOW WONDERFULLY IN CHARACTER!". I'm so glad they don't idealize Branson, that they show all those shades of gray! Because, obviously, both Sybil and Branson are freedom fighters, but her background is liberal democracy (of sort), and his background is the social revolution. And it turns out that when we take that into account, "freedom" may mean quite contradictory things.

I need to go now (real life sucks...), but I'll be back to talk about other characters if you don't mind :).

Your icon is stunning, btw.

I get what you're saying, and from that perspective it makes sense. I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who wants Sybil to be happy, and I think he made it clear in this episode that he can't do that because he doesn't respect her as much as he should.

And it turns out that when we take that into account, "freedom" may mean quite contradictory things.

Good point! I like that point quite a bit.

Sorry about real life, and it's always fine to pop in and out here.

Your icon is stunning, btw.

Thank you :).

I see your point :). I'm a sucker for good history in fiction, and when you look at Downton like that, the show is simply flawless (well, at least in my opinion - I don't know that much about the Edwardian period to pass some sort of "serious" judgement).

I'm not sure how I feel about Ethel stuff... What I really liked was that, when it comes to sex, Anna is just one step behind Ethel (like, last episode, when she offered Mr Bates she would become his mistress), and the characters have different standards when it comes to Anna! I know I shouldn't be all "YAY, INJUSTICE", but it's just... so human? I read the Ethel - Mrs Hughes - Anna relations as saying that Anna wouldn't get immediately sacked if she was caught with Bates. The characters simply don't like Ethel, so they apply the harshest existing standard to her. And of course it's not fair, but it also shows that people had complex sexual morality back then. They were more eager to forgive some things than the other, they had their favorites; there was no organized "system" abusing women, it was a very complex and subtle structure with details and shades and "grades of evil". I like this depiction. It's fair. If there was a strict system, a set of rules that always worked, we would be well rid of it by now, and we aren't, we still have some pieces here and there. So the fact that there are double standards in Downton kind of helps to explain our reality.

Still, I'm not sure if there really should be a girl punished for having sex shown on TV, and all with no proper comment. So I like this artistically, I guess, but I have my doubts when it comes to the message it sends to the audience.

It's a big and broad problem, actually. Because how do we depict stuff like women abuse, or slavery, or shocking violence in contemporary historical fiction? For example, I'm really curious how do English-speaking people respond to Branson. Because I grew up in Eastern Europe, and culture there is full of images of different "types" of communists (well, not now, but it's not like you don't watch older movies or read older books, right?), so I instinctively put him being a "freedom fighter" in quotation marks, and I expect him to start abusing people in the name of freedom (of course it's a cliche in my head, and reality is never that simple, but it's not like I can help it). So how do you people read Branson? Are you surprised by his behavior in the last episode?

I know those questions may sound a bit silly; it's just that people's reactions to ideologies like communism are so culture-specific, because countries had so different experience with those beliefs, and one rarely has the occasion to ask people about it.

Things that made me angry:

+ Branson's dialogue.

I'm mad at him, lol. He's all 'be a free spirit, lead the revolution, throw off society, BUT OH WAIT, GIVE UP YOUR ENTIRE LIFE FOR ME BECAUSE I KNOW BEST.'

I'm also worried for Daisy.

And Mary's FAAAAAAACE was glorious.

BUT OH WAIT, GIVE UP YOUR ENTIRE LIFE FOR ME BECAUSE I KNOW BEST.'

YES. I AM UPSET.

Poor Daisy! My tummy is all tangled up in knots for her!

Mary has the best face. That is all.

I wanted some Isobel/Violet interaction, because Penelope Wilton and Maggie Smith make everything better.

I think Daisy will marry William. Probably after he comes back wounded. But he might die after that.

Someone will get a telegram (like Wilfred Owen's mother did) on Armistice Day.

Someone will die, not in the War, but in the devastating Spanish Flu epidemic of the winter of 1918/19.

One of the soldiers will go to Ireland and Branson will kill him.

Lady Mary and Matthew will marry. Eventually.

There will be a dashing American invalided to Downton sometime in the summer of 1918, because ITV is well aware of the sales potential of this show. He will fall for one of the daughters.

I wanted some Isobel/Violet interaction, because Penelope Wilton and Maggie Smith make everything better

Agreed!

I will be so upset if Daisy and William get married, because that's clearly not what she wants. She's being pressured into it by everyone else, and that's not okay.

I like your predictions! We'll see how many of them come true!

I now know Julian Fellowes isn't just leading me on with Mary/Matthew in my head - he really is doing it. UNFAIR THINGS, ugh. The dog. The walking down the row and singing with her. I am a little dead inside this morning. I love how stubborn Mary is about Matthew being in love with Lavinia though. "What does he have to do to convince you he is in love with Lavinia? Cut open his chest and carve it on his heart?" Also her planning to be among the families that falls after the war. My little survivor.

I was skeeved out by the Sybil/Branson stuff this ep and was very glad I don't have strong feelings about them because...ouch. And the fact that he apologized and that scene was cut makes me a little more okay with it all but it didn't make it in, so...yeah. Disappointing.

I agree the Cora/Isobel scenes were catty but I do think Isobel has been stepping all over Cora lately and I was glad to see her stand up for herself. In my head there's also some other issues between those women, like how their children broke each others' hearts.

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getting list-y with it

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