Annoyance of the day:

[lirazel]

People who flat-out say that Buffy didn't love Spike despite the fact that she said she did.

She said she did. The only reason we have to believe that she didn't is one thing Spike said, and since when do people believe anything that comes out of Spike's mouth? Boy can speak the truth that no one else will, but he also says a ton of b.s., and everyone knows it.

I just hatehatehatehatehatehate all of these people sitting around telling a woman (and it would be a woman--if a man said, it I think a lot less people would disagree with her) who finds it nearly impossible to say the words "I love you" even to people she regards as family (remember "Intervention"? That's canon) that she doesn't love someone when she said she did.

I don't have a problem with people quibbling over the nature of her love. You can argue that she didn't love him romantically or as much as she did Angel or whatever (I would disagree with the first one and re: the second, I would remind you that, as the_royal_anna says, we don't love in amounts. We love in ways). That's legit. But to say, flat-out, that she didn't love him even though she says she did takes agency away from Buffy in a way that I am entirely uncomfortable with and that DRIVES ME CRAZY, OKAY. If she had said she loved Riley (she didn't, did she?), I would be pissed at people saying she didn't love him, either. Uuuugh why does this annoy me so much?

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

But people are saying "That was season 6 and this is season 7 and things are different now" and I'm asking how exactly are they different... because I do think that it's one sequence of events. It's all in one continuum.

So, exactly, there is no line of demarcation.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

People keep insisting "but that was season 6 and this is season 7." I'm asking that if it really matters what season it's in, point to me where--on screen within the 'verse-- the seasonal difference is matters. What distinguishes it? What marks some upending of Buffy's estimation of Spike's status relative to herself? We can't assume a radically different mindset in 7 than 6 based on "well it's a different season now." [I'm not, BTW, arguing that she doesn't say that he's better than he was. She does in fact state that quite clearly. But that statement doesn't necessarily mean that she thinks he's on the same playing field as herself. It's possible to think he's changed and grown... and to still think "beneath me") But people say "but that was Season 6 and this was Season 7" and I want to understand what makes that demarcation important within the 'verse to the characters as opposed to the DVD packagers? I'd argue... it doesn't.

And I'm unsure how that sequence of the debate gets lost in translation. It's liking telling someone playing tennis and saying "You take the north court. I'll take the south" then asking them "why are you on the north side of the court?" If the argument is that a character's views have changed because of which season they're in, I'm wondering what makes that distinction. What makes them separate? If Buffy's estimation of Spike's status relative to herself (as opposed to himself) is radically different based on "that was Season 6 and this is Season 7" where was that tipping point? What distinguishes this transition and when did it change to the opposite of what it previously was. If it's the seasonal distinction, how do we know that? If not, then there is no distinction based on season. And if we're saying "Well she changed this view and does see him on the same social/moral level of herself," what tipped her into the view quite opposite of the one she'd had only months (I'm not arguing that she doesn't recognize a change relative to himself. I'd say that "Never Leave Me" supports that quite well." it's relative to herself that I wonder about. If she really changed her view that much when was the tipping point and how could we tell?)