Annoyance of the day:

[lirazel]

People who flat-out say that Buffy didn't love Spike despite the fact that she said she did.

She said she did. The only reason we have to believe that she didn't is one thing Spike said, and since when do people believe anything that comes out of Spike's mouth? Boy can speak the truth that no one else will, but he also says a ton of b.s., and everyone knows it.

I just hatehatehatehatehatehate all of these people sitting around telling a woman (and it would be a woman--if a man said, it I think a lot less people would disagree with her) who finds it nearly impossible to say the words "I love you" even to people she regards as family (remember "Intervention"? That's canon) that she doesn't love someone when she said she did.

I don't have a problem with people quibbling over the nature of her love. You can argue that she didn't love him romantically or as much as she did Angel or whatever (I would disagree with the first one and re: the second, I would remind you that, as the_royal_anna says, we don't love in amounts. We love in ways). That's legit. But to say, flat-out, that she didn't love him even though she says she did takes agency away from Buffy in a way that I am entirely uncomfortable with and that DRIVES ME CRAZY, OKAY. If she had said she loved Riley (she didn't, did she?), I would be pissed at people saying she didn't love him, either. Uuuugh why does this annoy me so much?

Comments

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

And that is not a reflection of Buffy's love for him. Not at all.

YES.

And, honestly, I think she does it for herself as much as for him. It's almost like she frees herself by admitting it.

Gah! Yes! Absolutely. I think it's really hard for Buffy to say the words--but I do think once she's done it, she's freed herself of some sort of burden. Like, if the words had never been said, if the feelings had just been there, in her throat, when he died, his death would've been much harder for her to bear.

But more than just being a way to bear his death--the admission of love seems to me like this big moment of acceptance. (And I think I'm having an epiphany right now as I type this.) Buffy had been fighting her own identity for SO LONG. And she'd take one step toward accepting herself and two steps back. Spike is in many ways the part of herself that she had the most trouble accepting. Her dark side. The slayer. But also more than that--he's also the part of Buffy, the girl, that she has trouble accepting. So, when she can finally face down that she loves him--it's an acceptance of herself as well.

Which, frankly, makes it all the more important that we believe her when she tells Spike that she loves him. Because if we don't believe her--we're pushing her backwards. Away from accepting and loving herself.

[next_to_normal]

I am totally fangirling you right now, FYI.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

it's an acceptance of herself as well.

Yes.

That's the beautiful symbolism that's presented with her loving him and his death destroying the hellmouth. Learning to love the demon destroys the projected demonic within, the manifestation of the demonic, of the psyche, that is the hellmouth.

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

Ha! I wonder if I read your post and somehow it got digested into my subconscious--and now BAM! it comes out.

Learning to love the demon destroys the projected demonic within

YES. I love this. I don't know how you always manage to say such pithy, pretty things.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Hey, that's totally the difference between reading something and agreeing, "that makes sense," and taking it in yourself and coming to that realization on your own. Hearing versus knowing. Like seeing your math teacher work out a calculus problem on the board isn't the same as you figuring it out yourself when you're at home with your textbook.

YES. I love this. I don't know how you always manage to say such pithy, pretty things.

Sometimes I get lucky! I love that symbolism, the Hellmouth as the psyche and loving the demon being what destroys it. Not only love, but faith and belief in the goodness of darkness. The "dark place" is not evil, we don't have to demonize it and marginalize it. We must embrace it.

Also! Check me out down here. I'd love to hear your ~thoughts~.