lirazel | Annoyance of the day:

People who flat-out say that Buffy didn't love Spike despite the fact that she said she did.

She said she did. The only reason we have to believe that she didn't is one thing Spike said, and since when do people believe anything that comes out of Spike's mouth? Boy can speak the truth that no one else will, but he also says a ton of b.s., and everyone knows it.

I just hatehatehatehatehatehate all of these people sitting around telling a woman (and it would be a woman--if a man said, it I think a lot less people would disagree with her) who finds it nearly impossible to say the words "I love you" even to people she regards as family (remember "Intervention"? That's canon) that she doesn't love someone when she said she did.

I don't have a problem with people quibbling over the nature of her love. You can argue that she didn't love him romantically or as much as she did Angel or whatever (I would disagree with the first one and re: the second, I would remind you that, as

the_royal_anna says, we don't love in amounts. We love in ways). That's legit. But to say, flat-out, that she didn't love him even though she says she did takes agency away from Buffy in a way that I am entirely uncomfortable with and that DRIVES ME CRAZY, OKAY. If she had said she loved Riley (she didn't, did she?), I would be pissed at people saying she didn't love him, either. Uuuugh why does this annoy me so much?

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To be perfectly honest, it was sort of Sawyer who didn't choose Kate in the end. She followed him back to Other Village. It was just that the timing was disastrous. Juliet had just died. He was in mourning. It was really heartbreaking as Kate sat beside him as he threw away Juliet's ring.

But, honestly, I never saw anything that precluded Sawyer and Kate getting together post-Island (after a certain amount of time. They both needed to mourn.) I never thought that either spent their lives celibate and, who other than each other could ever really understand? I figure Kate/Sawyer had a life. The ending allowed them to also have the life that they didn't have.

Edited 2010-12-14 18:43 (UTC)

It's still too raw for me to talk about that much but it's conflicting, I agree. There's the scene in Dharmaville but then there's the scene by the campfire and other things that in the end, were not followed through on.

They both definitely needed to mourn though but... my ship. I don't want to bore you with all the reasons why that's exactly why I think they had a life together off the island, but I've read some absolutely lovely fics that respect the church scene/context but talk about life off the island as being more than waiting to die.

I always kind of envisioned them being together as well as being close to Claire and Aaron (because I can't see Kate not being close to Aaron either. By that point he was as much her child as Claire's.)

If you're interested in post-island stories,

valhalla37 wrote an excellent one that's Claire centric but talks about the dynamics of those who left the island.

http://valhalla37.livejournal.com/41509.html#cutid1

But totally agree on Aaron being Kate's as much as Claire's :) The finale solidified that.

I loved how the connection that 'awoke' Kate... was Aaron. :) (And clearly, given the limbo, Miles and Sawyer must've hung out post-Island as well. :)

Edited 2010-12-14 19:11 (UTC)

The amount which I want Miles and Sawyer to be buddy cops after the island is unfair. I mean... that has to happen, right? :D And yeah, that's what I was referring to with Kate and Aaron. Though I've suddenly become a huge Miles/Claire shipper in the aftermath of the finale - go figure.

ETA: Would you like to be friends? We already share some interests but there's also Being Human and Mad Men and FNL :)

Edited 2010-12-14 19:22 (UTC)

The amount which I want Miles and Sawyer to be buddy cops after the island is unfair. I mean... that has to happen, right?

Absolutely, positively had to! The two conmen who imagine themselves as cops was awesome. And there simply had to be a real friendship there because otherwise why was the connection so important? Sawyer actually confessed his vendetta to Miles. That's pretty freakin' huge.

Would you like to be friends? We already share some interests but there's also Being Human and Mad Men and FNL :)

I thought we already were. Friend me! :)

I think we've just crossed so many times we forgot to :) Added!

Well, not "kind of". He was talking about his love for Juliet and said that there is nobody now that he would want to spend his life with. From the way Kate cried, she figured that was it. I found it funny when someone said on a forum that Kate "chose" Jack in the end. She didn't. She saw that Sawyer loved Juliet more. Even in the flashsideways, Sawyer tells Kate that they wouldn't be good together.

But I only shipped Kate/Sawyer mildly anyway and stopped halfway through season 3 - because I never liked Kate, and she just got too wishy washy. And after a while I just didn't care about the whole love triangle. I did like that Juliet and Sawyer got together since I liked each of them better than Kate and Jack, but their relationship wasn't developed over too many episodes (even though in series time, they spent years together) for me to be as invested in it as in Sun/Jin, for instance.

But I only shipped Kate/Sawyer mildly anyway and stopped halfway through season 3 - because I never liked Kate

This is me. I was vaguely team Skate until Juliet showed up, then it was all about stanning her.

Well, not "kind of". He was talking about his love for Juliet and said that there is nobody now that he would want to spend his life with. From the way Kate cried, she figured that was it.

It was terrible timing. Juliet had died, what? Hours? Days before? He had loved Juliet for six years (mostly off screen). Her loss was huge. And i grant that Kate losing Jack was also huge. Clearly, Sawyer and Kate loved Juliet and Jack a great deal. They were incredibly important to them, enough that they longed for them in the afterlife. But, I guess I'm very much of the school that there isn't always only one. And I choose to believe that Sawyer and Kate lived long lives that weren't just 'waiting to die.' So I'm open enough to the thought that in the years after the island, Sawyer and Kate were close. I hate to think that either of them lived the rest of their lives miserable and alone (albeit not without wistfulness for what would have been had Juliet and Jack not died). I guess I like the foursome in that case. All in all, I'm perfectly happy with the way things worked out.

And Sun/Jin... *sob* Damn lost and it's many starcrossed lovers! :) They had great love for that trope (but that's okay, it's all love in heaven. I'm one of those rare people who loved the finale. I can be a sentimental sap that way. :)

I don't believe in "there is just one" trope either. I have no idea if Kate and Sawyer got together on the mainland or just remained friends. As for the finale, I loved it, but I have to say the whole thing with everyone getting to be paired up and everyone finding their true love (?) was a bit cheesy. There are also people who angry that Sayid finally "found" Shannon rather than Nadia, but as far as I'm concerned, I was perfectly OK with both those ships and I'm sure he loved both those women. I was more bothered by not seeing Eko.

I suppose somewhere there's Tailie heaven where Eko is reunited with his brother. :)

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