Hey, y'all!

[lirazel]

Get your Xander!hate on! eleusis_walks is doing his 30 Days of BtVS, and even though there are many, many topics I strongly disagree with him on, he is always thoughtful and awesome and interesting. And the things I do agree with him on? I agree violently.

Like our mutual hate for the ultimate Nice Guy Xander Harris. He basically lists every single hateful thing that Xander ever says/does and I am glorying in my hate. He also has a love-post devoted to Anya, which I haven't gotten to read yet, but I know is wonderful because anything involving Anya is wonderful. And eleusis_walks loves Dawn and Cordy and Jenny and basically a ton of awesome ladies, so I forgive him for not loving my boy and my girl enough. ;D

So join the hate fest! Or if you like Xander...well, I would like to hear why. Because it is beyond my understanding.

Comments

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

I... don't hate Xander.

Get your Xander!hate on!

And I've gotta be honest, because I don't do shut-up-you're-a-minority very well: Hate-orgies make me pretty uncomfortable. Mostly because I'm wondering how all the Xander-loving peeps in our corner of fandom must be feeling. If this big discussion was happening about Spike (which... there have been plenty), it wouldn't matter if all the points were valid - it would hurt. It would diminish my feeling of safety in this fandom. So, I respectfully decline.

Re: that essay, I nod along with all of its points, but I can't forget all the positive parts of the character that Emmie has pretty much also written an essay about upthread. Though, I agree violently with this:

Okay, first of all, how DARE he? How DARE he take the power of disclosure away from Buffy?

This has always shitted me off. Particularly because I feel like we're supposed to be agreeing with him? Anyway, it was insensitive to a colossal degree.

Still. I'm with Emmie. I'm always a long way off from hate.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm totally fine with anybody liking him, but I don't and can't because his particular flaws are the kind that most infuriate me. So there's that.

It would diminish my feeling of safety in this fandom.

That certainly isn't anyone's intention, especially not mine. I've just seen so much hate directed at my personal faves (Buffy and Spike, obvs) that I take it for granted that any character can and will be bashed in fandom and I just need to steer myself away from it (not that I'm always great at doing that, but I try). Because characters prompt visceral reactions in all of us, and fandom is about nothing if not voicing your intensely-held opinions.

I wish I didn't hate him. I don't want to hate any character, and it makes rewatching laborious. But I can't help it. Hate wells up in my soul.

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

to chime in to you for a second since i am on the haterade train so often they made me conductor, this.

look, sometimes people on television suck. and sometimes who watch television suck and think awesome characters are terrible. i'm an angel stan. things we know. if i let hate keep me out of this fandom then i would have walked myself out three months ago. sometimes people need defending and sometimes people need to be shut down. it's not about everyone being nice to each other - as an angel and cordelia and angel/cordelia fan i will tell you that much. this fandom isn't nice. it will never be nice. what it is is privileging fandom favorites, even if they are horrible people because they are fandom favorites, because fandom connects with them on one level or another, and that's not just behavior or a good fandom, that's allowing fandoms that are cast in good lights based purely on nostalgia to walk free of the shit they pull.

and that's just fucked up. i will conduct this haterade train for all of time because sometimes people need to be hated on. c's one essay v. the entire MASSIVE btvs fandom loving xander is a drop in the bucket the size of kentucky. and it also needed to be fucking said.

that is all lauren thank you for your time and listening to my rant i will now accept all comments telling me am wrong. this entire fandom drives me nuts sometimes, i swear. hence: cannot shut up about it. :)

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

are we married yet

why not

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

LOLLOL YOUUUU

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

btw when i dismantle spike's s7 character arc on day 11 are people going to feel unsafe

i feel like i should know this beforehand :I

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I know it'll upset me, so I'm just not going to read it. Problem solved.

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

WAS ACTUALLY MY REACTION.

the plastics.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

My time is always yours!

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

It's fine. I honestly didn't expect agreement from anyone. I was fairly sure I was going to get a dozen people jumping on me anyway, because what am I if not an idealistic fool. But to clarify: I have no problem with eleusis_walks's original post. The subject is 'least favourite character' after all. What I was reacting negatively to was the atmosphere of everyone gathering around to rejoice hating on something. I've had too many shitty experiences with that before. My issues, whatever. (Though I suspect not just mine.) But if it's something that you all need and enjoy, don't let me stop you.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, I would never want anyone to jump on you! That's not cool here.

What I was reacting negatively to was the atmosphere of everyone gathering around to rejoice hating on something. I've had too many shitty experiences with that before.

That is totally understandable.

I had been reminded just a few days ago of Xander's saying that thing about coming back to town and Buffy having a horrible life and him taking her out to dinner and her crying and it just INFURIATED me. So this post came along at the exact moment that let me let that out. Besides, I mostly spend my time talking about the characters I love (for good reason--it's more enjoyable and more healthy) , so it was a one-time take-a-vacation-and-enjoy-that-some-people-actually-agree-with-me thing.

And I was absolutely sincere in wanting to hear the reasons people love him. So I'm glad that there were lots of defenses of him in this post, at least. I wanted this post to be more balanced, and I think people really stepped up to the plate for that, and I'm glad.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

Oh, we're cool here. I understand that need to vent. I just have this knee-jerk reaction of PANIIIIIIC when I see a lot of bashing going on, because I start automatically counting the minutes 'til a big fan-war erupts.

I wanted this post to be more balanced, and I think people really stepped up to the plate for that, and I'm glad.

I am glad too. Tbh, what I was worried about was that some Xander fans might show up and become defensive and then get mass-attacked for disagreeing. That stuff always makes me feel a little sick. But I acknowledge that I was probably overreacting there. :)

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

Just to pop in for a second, the meme asked me for my least favorite character, and I explained why Xander is my least favorite character. I think "hate orgy" is a little extreme!

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

preach.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

That's what it felt like for anyone who forgot their ticket to board the hate train, though!

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

the hate train has very affordable payment plans okay

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Okay now I'm imagining Xander being tied to the back of the train and dragged 'cross country. Awww. Also, bwha!

Thinking more on Xander, I felt like Cordy and Anya got the more sympathetic portrayals in the breakdown of their relationships with Xander, so much so that they could pursue vengeance and it felt justified. Actually going through with the vengeance? Well, a step too far. But they were the ones wronged. So I think the show portrays Xander as a jackass quite a bit.

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

Oh, see, I think the show actually goes to great pains to avoid Anya's PoV except in "Entropy", where she's played as kind of an ex-girlfriend gone psycho. Cordelia also is relegated to the background and written primarily as a shrew until we find out about her lost fortune.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

Whoa whoa whoa, no, I wasn't referring to your post. (I think I mentioned that I agreed with your post.) I'm very up with this 30 day meme. Your post bothers me not at all. What I find a little weird is the ensuing atmosphere of community joy that hating on something has caused. It's a less specific concern, and one that I'm not at all directing at you personally.

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

Okay, I was just kind of 'yikes', haha.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

I mean, to clarify - I don't think your post goes into fan-judging territory at all (which is what I was meaning with the 'unsafe' thing). But I'm pretty aware of what fandom's like, and I was expecting that sooner or later somebody somewhere was gonna start directing derogatory comments not just at Xander but also at his fans. It was a pre-emptive knee-jerk panic. Not personal.