lirazel | Hey, y'all!

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Hey, y'all!

Get your Xander!hate on!

eleusis_walks is doing his 30 Days of BtVS, and even though there are many, many topics I strongly disagree with him on, he is always thoughtful and awesome and interesting. And the things I do agree with him on? I agree violently.

Like our mutual hate for the ultimate Nice Guy Xander Harris. He basically lists every single hateful thing that Xander ever says/does and I am glorying in my hate. He also has a love-post devoted to Anya, which I haven't gotten to read yet, but I know is wonderful because anything involving Anya is wonderful. And

eleusis_walks loves Dawn and Cordy and Jenny and basically a ton of awesome ladies, so I forgive him for not loving my boy and my girl enough. ;D

So join the hate fest! Or if you like Xander...well, I would like to hear why. Because it is beyond my understanding.

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I have thoughts! The thing about Grave, he only reaches that point because he's hit rock bottom. When he's complaining earlier on the run with Dawn about how he doesn't have powers, that's essential for his character. Because he has to realize that he can do nothing but show up. That's all he can do and he does it.

I mean, that's pretty much the foundation of Xander's character construction. He's the guy who always shows up. He'll follow you down into the Master's cave, he'll follow you into hell, he'll stare down a power mad, grief stricken witch because where else is he gonna be? His friends need him. What can he do? Nothing. What does he do? He shows up.

It's not about him being insightful or about him self-actualizing, but that by being torn down, he's forced to realize that he has nothing. You know, if nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do. Xander is like that: if nothing I do matters, than the only thing I can do is what matters. All he can do is show up and say, "I'm here for you."

That's a great virtue, I think. And it's one Xander's always had with him. A degree of loyalty that overrides all sense of self-preservation. So it's not something he needed to learn in Grave, but something he needed to rediscover in himself. I think his talking with Buffy in Seeing Red is what bridges Entropy to Grave, also having Buffy nearly die, and running around being able to do nothing to help at all. It drives home to him that his only virtue is just being supportive and so he decides that's what he's going to be because it's the only thing he can do.

I think that's why he outgrows his petty tendencies. He spends the Dark Willow arc hitting road block after road block. His friends and the world are imploding and this his realization: I show up, that's all I can do and maybe I'll die doing it, but I always show up for you.

I can see that. But again--I'm struggling with this one thing--his speech in "Entropy" shows the exact kind of misogyny that has been the thing that most bothered me about him all along. And I just don't think that would disappear suddenly just because he realizes that he's the one who shows up, you know?

But your thoughts are awesome.

I think it's because not only realizing that he's the show up guy, but that that's his best possible self and embracing that, it requires embracing selflessness and letting go of resentment. And I think being secure and letting go of resentment deflates the entitlement that fuels misogyny.

I can see how you can get there, I guess I just need it to be more explicit. I resent him enough that I don't want to fanwank him--if he's going to change, I want the reasons to be there for me to see. Not that I don't love it when you point things out for me...but I don't want you to do Joss's job. You know?

Is it fanwank though? I mean, I was just thinking about the progression of his scenes at the end of Season 6 and how it relates to his character history.

Like, to me fanwank is when you're pulling something outta your ass (like we can fanwank Faith's childhood history to make sense of her character), not where you're lining up the progression of scenes.

By that same token, I feel like a lot of things I love about Buffy and Spike in Season 7 would be fanwank just because they're not as explicit, but are in the progression of the scenes.

I guess I don't see how it's fanwank? It seems like text to me. My interpretation of the text, but not something that I strained to make sense of or had to make up reasons for it to make sense.

It's fanwank to me, because I would never in a million years have come up with that from looking at the text. And I really don't think that Joss even knows how horribly sexist Xander was all along. So when the writing suddenly changed for Xander, it just feels like bad writing to me. It feels like fanwank to me.

But if it's very obvious and clear from the text to you, then it wouldn't be for you. I'm loose with the word.

Ah see, when I think of fanwank, it's specific. So like my reading of the text being fanwank means that I just fanwanked it.

I can see some of the writers being blind to how horribly sexist Xander is, but I think in moving him towards a place where he's secure, it diminishes the motive inside that perpetuates those sexist attitudes. So while the misogyny isn't directly dealt with, the reason Xander acts out is gone. Though the pervasive nature of the attitudes are probably deeply rooted still. Socialization--I hate some of the stuff that's just inside me and hasn't been properly examined yet.

When you say explicit, do you mean you wished that Xander's sexist attitudes and behaviors were explicitly dealt with? 'Cause yeah, that definitely never happened. I think the self-awareness he reaches in Grave is minimal in the sense that he realizes one thing he's good for and through that, finds a bedrock of security and calm inside him that he's been struggling to find all along (and this was helped a lot by his steady job in construction and success professionally, but he still had the setback in the group dynamic of his friends).

Okay, for real gonna crash. I actually never got to sleep last night so I'm going on fumes here. :D

When you say explicit, do you mean you wished that Xander's sexist attitudes and behaviors were explicitly dealt with? 'Cause yeah, that definitely never happened.

Yeah. I felt like we were supposed to really like this guy 'cause he's supposedly funny (though I don't find him so) and we're also supposed to feel sorry for him 'cause he's "normal" (even though normal is all Buffy ever wants to be) and so we're supposed to forgive the absolutely heinous way he treats the women around him. I just don't think the text acknowledges how awful his attitudes are.

Just like I need Willow raping Tara to be more explicitly explored. I still don't feel like anyone on the writing staff saw it that way, so it never feels explored in the text. It's just handwaved away. Things like this BOTHER ME, because so many people watching these shows aren't as wonderfully thoughtful as you are, and so they won't realize how messed up this all is.

Sleep well!

I'm off to take a nap! Sleeeeeeeeeeepy.

Enjoy! I wish I could nap!

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Hey, y'all!

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