I'm waiting....

[lirazel]

Replies to my last few posts are forthcoming (I've loved all of y'all's thoughts!), but first:

I am disappointed in y'all! No one on my flist has posted about the new Season 8 preview? I need y'all's thoughts! Your fury or excitement! Where's the drama?

Come on. With the way y'all are not talking, you'd think you had actual lives or something.

Comments

[angearia.livejournal.com]

There's the humorous side to it, but it's also quite powerful tale for Xander. Who loses himself in grief (Anya), falls prey to thrall like he did before in Season 5, then finds the strength to become his own man again by feeling grief for a loved one (Renee) and rejecting thrall. He becomes more fully himself through the process. It's another stage in Xander's coming of age story--the next step after being successful at his job, helping to save his best friend and help save the world.

Xander is the one Whedonverse character I can point to who gets stronger as he matures and isn't made to suffer for that. Others around him suffer, but not as a consequence of his strength. Cordy is another character who gets stronger, but her arc crashes and burns. Wes becomes stronger, but also more broken at the same time.

[elisi]

Season 8 is Xander's season! \o/ (Actually I love him throughout, and I think he's the only one who's pretty much in character the whole time. And apart from the scene where he mansplains to Buffy why she shouldn't have told him that she fancies him right after he's hooked up with Dawn - insert fury - he's pretty lovable. And even that scene isn't out of character...)

Also I love Dracula - the loneliness and sadness hiding beneath the unpleasant exterior, and my FAVOURITE line of all of s8: "It's the old man you should worry about." Excellent.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I really love WatG actually. I know a lot of LJ folks are down about it, but that arc is incredible. Yes, it has the monstrosity of Mecha!Dawn, but if I could take out that moment, the final issue is pretty much perfection from the Renee POV as she's fading away to the crazy action and everyone working together, to Dracula's badassery to Xander darkly executing Toru and then falling to his knees, to Buffy knowing he was utterly destroyed and being there to hold him.

I even love an earlier bit where Xander returns with Dracula and Willow sees him and exclaims, "Xander!" in the background of the scene while everyone's talking over her. Drew Goddard so gets these characters. I loved how excited Willow was to have her oldest, best friend back--just seeing him there made her happy.

I can even buy the experimentation Buffy/Satsu storyline now. Tbh, I had trouble with it originally because of my own issues (not to say others have trouble for the same reasons I did), but because I was really stuck in the cultural heterosexual mindset I'd been brought up to believe. I can still think Buffy self-identifies as straight, that she's attracted to men, but that she had a connection with Satsu that transcended gender and sexual organs. Maybe that's paradoxical--but it makes sense to me, especially considering how sexually confusing Buffy's life has been. She's mostly slept with vampires, had wild and crazy BDSM times with Spike--Buffy is a person who lives through experience and is more than willing to try new things and get creative. I can totally see her being impulsive and curious.

Plus, I don't read her as using Satsu. She was upfront about what she was willing to give to Satsu, Satsu knew the score and made an adult decision.

I kinda rambled on and on about this, but the more I think about the earlier arcs like WatG, the more I like them, especially in light of Meltzer's Twilight.

[elisi]

WatG is fabulous. If I could eradicate Mecha!Dawn it'd be perfect.

And it's funny, because I think the Xander/Dracula 'relationship' is total and utter crack, but I absolutely *adore* it. I wish all of s8 was that adorable. ♥

Not sure about Buffy/Satsu. Comic!Buffy is obviously OK with experimenting, so it doesn't bother me anymore. Show!Buffy wouldn't, but then show!Buffy wouldn't find herself in the situation that comic!Buffy is in, because she's not isolated and lonely. :)

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Xander's a veritable Marty Stu in the comics compared to everyone else. Given what he's supposed to represent, it kind of makes me dislike it even more. It's just more of Joss thinking that acknowledging something is silly, OOC or stupid somehow makes it OK.

The mansplaining is in character for him and I think we're supposed to take it as truth that Buffy's just projecting things on him and they needed to explain that in some way.

What annoys me about him in the comics actually is when he tells Dawn about Parker which is a) completely irrelevant, b) not his story to tell and c) none of either of their business. Really, what does Parker have to do with Dawn cheating on Kenny? A better story to tell would be the Clothes Fluke. /rage

[elisi]

Well Xander was ALWAYS a Marty Stu - dunno what it says that he's the only one who doesn't sound completely OOC. ;)

The mansplaining is in character for him and I think we're supposed to take it as truth that Buffy's just projecting things on him and they needed to explain that in some way.
Someone on my flist is watching Buffy and Angel for the first time. Her comment after seeing ITW? 'WHY DOES THIS SHOW HATE WOMEN?' It's one of the things that drive me INSANE. *stabs* It's not that I mind Xander being a jerk - that's just part of who he is, although I wish he'd grown out of it - it's the way we're clearly supposed to see him as being right.

What annoys me about him in the comics actually is when he tells Dawn about Parker
I'd completely forgotten about that.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know if I'd call Show!Xander a Marty Stu really. Sure, he's an author insert, but he's never shown as the best thing ever like the comics. In the comics, Dawn's a cheater, Willow is too, Buffy's a thief and doesn't care about anyone, but Xander just went to central Europe, got buff and the girls, even the one who never batted an eyelash at him for 10 years, swoon over him.* I mean, really.

I believe I've raged about ITW before. :D

I'd completely forgotten about that.

Ooh, that issue pissed me off big time. I mean, aside from the Buffy crap. It's the condescension there, you know, like passing judgment? But that's another thing I hate about those books is the seeming (to me, anyway) seediness to the sex talk, like it's behind Buffy's back. Same with Willow asking about what sounds she makes. The show was full of innuendo, but the character talked about was always involved in the conversation, if that makes sense.

*This is one of the things I meant with Joss acknowledging something is silly and thinking that makes it OK. It doesn't, of course. Having Buffy call space-fraking ridiculous in ToYL doesn't make it less stupid. Having Willow tease Buffy about bankrobbing doesn't make it not completely OOC. Having Kennedy joke about homophobia doesn't make Buffy's instant bisexuality an less out of nowhere. Having Buffy say she finds porn unappealing, then having her in a porn issue is more disturbing than heh-heh. And so on. :|

Sorry, got a little ranty there. Apologies penny-lane, mollyvanders and elisi. Guess I had something on my chest.

[elisi]

but Xander just went to central Europe, got buff and the girls, even the one who never batted an eyelash at him for 10 years, swoon over him.
I don't blame this on Xander, TBH, but on OOCness on Buffy's part. Does that make sense? (Actually I blame the writers.)

The show was full of innuendo, but the character talked about was always involved in the conversation, if that makes sense.
*nods* It was laughing *with*, not *at*.

This is one of the things I meant with Joss acknowledging something is silly and thinking that makes it OK.
THIS! So much!

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't blame Xander either. I don't blame Angel or Buffy or Dawn or any of them because, yeah, I blame the writers turning him into something he wasn't, same with Buffy, Willow and Dawn. All are pretty much crammed into the stereotypes they subverted on TV.