AAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lirazel]

...

...

...

...


Just needed to get that out of my system.

Carry on.

Comments

[diebirchen.livejournal.com]

Good to flush the system of toxins, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. Let it be as water of the proverbial duck's back, sweetie! Garbage in, garbage out.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Very wise words! Now I'm over it! :D

[elisi]

I am very glad that I don't know what you're referring to. But you can have my Angry Slayer icon to back you up.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yes, you should be quite glad indeed!

I appreciate your Angry Slayer icon--one can never have too many angry Buffy pics!

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Someone was mean to you?!? Grrrr! What happend?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

No, not mean. Just horribly dismissive and completely ignorant. Which makes me angrier--I can handle people being mean. I can't handle people mansplaining in the most patronizing tone possible about how anyone who thinks there's shady consent in S8 is "projecting."

Also, I'm just annoyed with myself that I keep going to whedonesque when I know I'm going to have to do Feminism 101 and it'll just piss me off.

Which reminds me that I need to visit your forum of happiness...I haven't had time to do that yet!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_jems_/]

Do I even want to know?

(This is a rhetorical question, I ALWAYS want to know! =)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I am going to go to lunch now and hopefully calm down. And when I come back, I'll go into more detail. For now: you can glance at the comment above you for a very vague overview.

I was deliberately being vague in consideration for all the people who are annoyed at my constant complaints about whedonesque. Because I would be annoyed with me, too.

[next_to_normal]

Hahaha, I love it when you express yourself through GIFs.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Ha! I'm glad you enjoy it! Sometimes nothing short of watching Tyra take out Lyla can express my rage....

[norwie2010.livejournal.com]

You can haz my icon.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yay! Guns! I feel much better now!

[powerofthebook.livejournal.com]

Cheers to you for fighting the good fight. What continues to amaze me, in the Buffy fandom, and in so many aspects of life, is how two people can experience the same thing and come to two completely different conclusions. You might see a house on fire, while they're marveling at how pretty the embers are.

The patronizing voice, though, is grating. Can't count the number of times I've stared into the computer, chanting "Burst into flames, burst into flames!" when encountering such. It's more than okay to be torked at some of those posters.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Aw! Thanks!

is how two people can experience the same thing and come to two completely different conclusions. You might see a house on fire, while they're marveling at how pretty the embers are.
What a great analogy! *loves it*

YES. I have no problem with people saying, "I don't see that going on here, but I recognize that your experience is valid and your feelings are genuine." It's being told that we're wrong and "projecting" and being totally dismissed and patronized to that I find absolutely infuriating.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

*Hugs you and gives you a ginger ale in case your tummy's still feeling sick from yesterday*

I take it you're staying home from work because of the pill popping of badness and simply thought some fangirling would make you feel better? Whedonesque scares me. It feels like going to church at the Vatican when you're a lapsed Catholic. No matter how valid your arguments against the Church are, certain priests are gonna smack you down, no matter what. Ooh, another analogy I'm proud of!

I hope you told him what for (and possibly stuck the mods on his ass!)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Aw! Thanks, hon!

Actually, no I'm at work. I just did the "Reopen your last browsing session" thing and an old thread opened up where people were making me want to HULKSMASH them.

That is a fan-freakin'-tastic analogy!

Actually, the mods really suck at that sort of thing. They seem to have no desire to create a safespace for women/minorities/etc. On the other hand, a really awesome lit professor just showed up and ripped the guy apart from a Critical Analysis perspective, so A+++++ there!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Your comments are wonderful! I'm sorry it's so frustrating, but I'm so proud of you for what you've expressed. And I've commented below you in response to hence who dismissed your points with the argument of "dental violence" metaphor for vampires. Sheesh.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Thank you, hon. I'm constantly weighing how important I think it is that someone be over there saying these things against how little good it seems to do and how frustrating it is.

You've had so many kick-ass comments, I cannot even tell you.

OMG THAT COMMENT. I walked away from that one: I just couldn't handle it. Seriously, anyone that dense just is never going to get it. I haven't even looked in that thread since he said that. Now I'm over in the official 35 discussion thread and Simon's derailed it by trying to talk about rapefic. I'm all about talking about rapefic as a phenomenon, but whedonesque is not the place to do it. Those people haven't even made it through Consent 101 yet. There’s no way they’re ready to talk about all the reasons women might have rape fantasies and all the reasons that women feeling free to express that is both a bad and a good thing. It’s too complicated to be talked about there.

I can’t wait to check out your “dental violence” comment.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

And I just read it! And it was awesome! And you're awesome!

And I love that you got the last word in before the mod closed down that line of discussion. FTW!

[madcap-shiny.livejournal.com]

Funny story: yesterday I was staring at Whedonesque, which has been my default Internet page for like three years, and I was like, "Uh, you know, sweetheart, we've had some good times, but I've found another website that has my heart and really, truly deserves to be my homepage, and, to my awareness, also isn't full of privileged wank. I think it's best if we part ways."

And then I changed it to TV Tropes.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

OMG I LOVE YOU SO HARD.

TV TROPES >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whedonesque. Trufax.

This may be the greatest story I've ever heard. You earned the JM!joy icon!

[local-max.livejournal.com]

This is a bit OT (delete if it's derailing, sorry!) but here's my personal history with Whedonesque:

In the Beginning, I found online sites for Buffy news and they were mostly really, really strongly anti-season six and seven. I read articles that indicated that people who liked those seasons were frightening people the authors didn't want to talk to, etc. I had read some positive stuff but I thought it was the exception and not the rule. Then I found Whedonesque and there were actually quite a few positive comments, and many intelligent ones. This became in some senses a relatively safe space to like the later seasons and not be bashed, and indeed no one seemed to be bashed (from what I observed at the time). Because I'm weirdly sensitive about my S6 love, this was good. (And I'm so weirdly sensitive that other pretty good sites, like say TvTropes, I stay away from because I just instinctually check out the seasonal rot page to read why season six is terrible and then feel depressed for an hour. It's a problem.) During Dollhouse's run there were many very, very smart comments both pro- and anti-.

But, yeah. The condescension is really frustrating, though, and you're absolutely right about gender/race. It's something that I hadn't noticed until recently and I think partly it's because the Whedonverse has moved into that territory more forcefully. Dollhouse is all about consent, and so the topics invariably lead to this. And because the Whedonverse skews pro-Whedon and people get defensive trying to discuss failings lead not to people saying the to me reasonable "I don't really see the metaphor myself" but "There's no metaphor, YOU'RE stupid!" And it's weirdly paradoxical because I enjoyed going there because you could be pro-S6 without being bashed, the dark side is that you can't be anti-Whedon without being bashed. The skewing pro-Whedon was an original draw for the site but now it's leading to others' voices being shut down. Gr.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Nah, there's no derailing in a post that was mostly an excuse to post a FNL .gif and rant. ;D And I like your thoughts.

I can see what you mean--I'm weirdly defensive about my S6 love as well, and it's definitely widely hated. I actually came to whedonesque after livejournal, so it felt less friendly to S6 than I had previously experienced here. Interesting how we came to it from different angles and felt different ways about it, because I always felt I was the minority opinion over there. But! I will say this for the mods: they are good at making sure things don't dissolve into flame wars, which is more than I can say for most other places outside lj.

During Dollhouse's run there were many very, very smart comments both pro- and anti-. Definitely. I appreciated that as well.

Honestly, I hadn't noticed it as strongly until recently, either, but that noticing it happened at the same time as noticing it in all the other areas of my life--there's heightened awareness all around, and the site definitely falls into that but is by no means the only place/atmosphere where I've been feeling it.

I think you're absolutely right about the skewing pro-Whedon being the reason people are taking this so hard. I'm not saying anything about him personally--to say that his writing shows a near pathological belief that romantic relationships always lead to badbadbadness, for instance, probably has nothing to do with his own marriage, which I know nothing about. So to keep going with that, for me to say that his works often create questions about consent doesn't mean that I'm saying he consciously believes these problematic things. I think my problem with Whedon is that he always wants to go for the Big Emotional Moment...and he never stops to think about the ramifications of those moments. It's short-sighted, and I'm growing increasingly frustrated with it.

Wow. I think that was...incoherent? I don't even know.

[ohwaluvusbab.livejournal.com]

K that's it, I'm signing up to Whedonesque so I can back you and Emmie up. I enjoy giving people the smackdown far too much.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Yay! Team Awesome FTW!

But you will probably have to wait until a national holiday to sign up, 'cause that's how Whedonesque rolls. They limit days to join to holidays so it doesn't become unmanageable.

[redsilverchains.livejournal.com]

AAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! was pretty much my reaction when I finally got morbidly curious and looked up the Buffy/Angel S8 boinking I kept hearing about.

IN THE STRATOSPHERE? WHAT. And that was just me reacting to the panels. O_O

It's interesting how snarky comments on TVTropes can trump patronizing posts on Whedonesque, huh? TVTropes= Best Internet blackhole EVER <3

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, there are no words for the stupidity of the whole thing. I can't even tell you.

It's interesting how snarky comments on TVTropes can trump patronizing posts on Whedonesque, huh? TVTropes= Best Internet blackhole EVER <3
AGREED!