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AAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Just needed to get that out of my system.
Carry on.
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Just needed to get that out of my system.
Carry on.
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Good to flush the system of toxins, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. Let it be as water of the proverbial duck's back, sweetie! Garbage in, garbage out.
Someone was mean to you?!? Grrrr! What happend?
Very wise words! Now I'm over it! :D
Do I even want to know?
(This is a rhetorical question, I ALWAYS want to know! =)
(This is a rhetorical question, I ALWAYS want to know! =)
Yes, you should be quite glad indeed!
I appreciate your Angry Slayer icon--one can never have too many angry Buffy pics!
I appreciate your Angry Slayer icon--one can never have too many angry Buffy pics!
No, not mean. Just horribly dismissive and completely ignorant. Which makes me angrier--I can handle people being mean. I can't handle people mansplaining in the most patronizing tone possible about how anyone who thinks there's shady consent in S8 is "projecting."
Also, I'm just annoyed with myself that I keep going to whedonesque when I know I'm going to have to do Feminism 101 and it'll just piss me off.
Which reminds me that I need to visit your forum of happiness...I haven't had time to do that yet!
Also, I'm just annoyed with myself that I keep going to whedonesque when I know I'm going to have to do Feminism 101 and it'll just piss me off.
Which reminds me that I need to visit your forum of happiness...I haven't had time to do that yet!
I am going to go to lunch now and hopefully calm down. And when I come back, I'll go into more detail. For now: you can glance at the comment above you for a very vague overview.
I was deliberately being vague in consideration for all the people who are annoyed at my constant complaints about whedonesque. Because I would be annoyed with me, too.
I was deliberately being vague in consideration for all the people who are annoyed at my constant complaints about whedonesque. Because I would be annoyed with me, too.
Arrrgh...of course. It's projecting when you ask about consent, when peoples brains have to be drained first to get them together... O.o
Proud of you for fighting the battle though.
And concerning my forum, I'll be very happy to see you there. It's still a bit quiet, but I'm quite happy with the crowd :)
Proud of you for fighting the battle though.
And concerning my forum, I'll be very happy to see you there. It's still a bit quiet, but I'm quite happy with the crowd :)
Hahaha, I love it when you express yourself through GIFs.
Cheers to you for fighting the good fight. What continues to amaze me, in the Buffy fandom, and in so many aspects of life, is how two people can experience the same thing and come to two completely different conclusions. You might see a house on fire, while they're marveling at how pretty the embers are.
The patronizing voice, though, is grating. Can't count the number of times I've stared into the computer, chanting "Burst into flames, burst into flames!" when encountering such. It's more than okay to be torked at some of those posters.
The patronizing voice, though, is grating. Can't count the number of times I've stared into the computer, chanting "Burst into flames, burst into flames!" when encountering such. It's more than okay to be torked at some of those posters.
Ha! I'm glad you enjoy it! Sometimes nothing short of watching Tyra take out Lyla can express my rage....
Yay! Guns! I feel much better now!
Aw! Thanks!
is how two people can experience the same thing and come to two completely different conclusions. You might see a house on fire, while they're marveling at how pretty the embers are.
What a great analogy! *loves it*
YES. I have no problem with people saying, "I don't see that going on here, but I recognize that your experience is valid and your feelings are genuine." It's being told that we're wrong and "projecting" and being totally dismissed and patronized to that I find absolutely infuriating.
is how two people can experience the same thing and come to two completely different conclusions. You might see a house on fire, while they're marveling at how pretty the embers are.
What a great analogy! *loves it*
YES. I have no problem with people saying, "I don't see that going on here, but I recognize that your experience is valid and your feelings are genuine." It's being told that we're wrong and "projecting" and being totally dismissed and patronized to that I find absolutely infuriating.
*profound sigh*
Thanks. I try. But I'm beginning to think it's not worth it.
Things take a while to catch on! I wouldn't be concerned! But yeah: I'll be over there soonish. :D
Thanks. I try. But I'm beginning to think it's not worth it.
Things take a while to catch on! I wouldn't be concerned! But yeah: I'll be over there soonish. :D
*Hugs you and gives you a ginger ale in case your tummy's still feeling sick from yesterday*
I take it you're staying home from work because of the pill popping of badness and simply thought some fangirling would make you feel better? Whedonesque scares me. It feels like going to church at the Vatican when you're a lapsed Catholic. No matter how valid your arguments against the Church are, certain priests are gonna smack you down, no matter what. Ooh, another analogy I'm proud of!
I hope you told him what for (and possibly stuck the mods on his ass!)
I take it you're staying home from work because of the pill popping of badness and simply thought some fangirling would make you feel better? Whedonesque scares me. It feels like going to church at the Vatican when you're a lapsed Catholic. No matter how valid your arguments against the Church are, certain priests are gonna smack you down, no matter what. Ooh, another analogy I'm proud of!
I hope you told him what for (and possibly stuck the mods on his ass!)
Aw! Thanks, hon!
Actually, no I'm at work. I just did the "Reopen your last browsing session" thing and an old thread opened up where people were making me want to HULKSMASH them.
That is a fan-freakin'-tastic analogy!
Actually, the mods really suck at that sort of thing. They seem to have no desire to create a safespace for women/minorities/etc. On the other hand, a really awesome lit professor just showed up and ripped the guy apart from a Critical Analysis perspective, so A+++++ there!
Actually, no I'm at work. I just did the "Reopen your last browsing session" thing and an old thread opened up where people were making me want to HULKSMASH them.
That is a fan-freakin'-tastic analogy!
Actually, the mods really suck at that sort of thing. They seem to have no desire to create a safespace for women/minorities/etc. On the other hand, a really awesome lit professor just showed up and ripped the guy apart from a Critical Analysis perspective, so A+++++ there!
Your comments are wonderful! I'm sorry it's so frustrating, but I'm so proud of you for what you've expressed. And I've commented below you in response to hence who dismissed your points with the argument of "dental violence" metaphor for vampires. Sheesh.
Thank you, hon. I'm constantly weighing how important I think it is that someone be over there saying these things against how little good it seems to do and how frustrating it is.
You've had so many kick-ass comments, I cannot even tell you.
OMG THAT COMMENT. I walked away from that one: I just couldn't handle it. Seriously, anyone that dense just is never going to get it. I haven't even looked in that thread since he said that. Now I'm over in the official 35 discussion thread and Simon's derailed it by trying to talk about rapefic. I'm all about talking about rapefic as a phenomenon, but whedonesque is not the place to do it. Those people haven't even made it through Consent 101 yet. There’s no way they’re ready to talk about all the reasons women might have rape fantasies and all the reasons that women feeling free to express that is both a bad and a good thing. It’s too complicated to be talked about there.
I can’t wait to check out your “dental violence” comment.
You've had so many kick-ass comments, I cannot even tell you.
OMG THAT COMMENT. I walked away from that one: I just couldn't handle it. Seriously, anyone that dense just is never going to get it. I haven't even looked in that thread since he said that. Now I'm over in the official 35 discussion thread and Simon's derailed it by trying to talk about rapefic. I'm all about talking about rapefic as a phenomenon, but whedonesque is not the place to do it. Those people haven't even made it through Consent 101 yet. There’s no way they’re ready to talk about all the reasons women might have rape fantasies and all the reasons that women feeling free to express that is both a bad and a good thing. It’s too complicated to be talked about there.
I can’t wait to check out your “dental violence” comment.
And I just read it! And it was awesome! And you're awesome!
And I love that you got the last word in before the mod closed down that line of discussion. FTW!
And I love that you got the last word in before the mod closed down that line of discussion. FTW!
FTW! I was happy to see SNT note the points raised are "thoughtful and illuminating". I was saying to Eowyn the other day how in light of the list you collected that it's shocking this discussion hasn't happened before. Has it? I feel like it hasn't. Not to this degree. And that #34 is the boiling over point that's sharpened our eyes to this issue in the Whedonverse. That and Dollhouse. Like it's this perfect storm of your and Gabs' Feminist posts, the creation of ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
ontd_feminism, the building of a feminist discussion of the Whedonverse, that's all made this possible.
Which is to say that yes, keep posting at Whedonesque. And I'll be there to back you up EVERY TIME.
ontd_feminism, the building of a feminist discussion of the Whedonverse, that's all made this possible.Which is to say that yes, keep posting at Whedonesque. And I'll be there to back you up EVERY TIME.
Yeah, her comment made me happy. Especially because I really don't feel like the mods over there have any real interest in shutting down sexist (and racist, and homophobic) talk. And yet any talk of shipping gets the ban hammer. Seriously?
Whatever. I'm over that.
I think that it has happened to a much lesser degree, but it's been outside the fandom. Remember those really insightful articles I linked to about gender!fail on AtS? That blogger was definitely writing about it. And I've read quite a few interesting feminist critiques here and on dreamwidth, but they're from people who would count themselves as fans of the show, but are outside of fandom proper.
I'd say it's safe to say that we've never had this conversation within the fandom before, at least not in our corner of it. Whenever we've talked about rape and gender, I feel like it's been in reference to the AR and to the depictions of Buffy and Spike in S6. Which are things that need to be talked about, but I kind of love that we're expanding the scope of the dialogue. Yay!
Plus, it took me a while for all this to percolate (did I even spell that right?) to the point where I saw these things. Maybe fandom as a whole needed some time, too?
Which is to say that yes, keep posting at Whedonesque. And I'll be there to back you up EVERY TIME. It feels so good to know you've got my back. And you know I have yours. Always.
...I might have to steal that icon.
Whatever. I'm over that.
I think that it has happened to a much lesser degree, but it's been outside the fandom. Remember those really insightful articles I linked to about gender!fail on AtS? That blogger was definitely writing about it. And I've read quite a few interesting feminist critiques here and on dreamwidth, but they're from people who would count themselves as fans of the show, but are outside of fandom proper.
I'd say it's safe to say that we've never had this conversation within the fandom before, at least not in our corner of it. Whenever we've talked about rape and gender, I feel like it's been in reference to the AR and to the depictions of Buffy and Spike in S6. Which are things that need to be talked about, but I kind of love that we're expanding the scope of the dialogue. Yay!
Plus, it took me a while for all this to percolate (did I even spell that right?) to the point where I saw these things. Maybe fandom as a whole needed some time, too?
Which is to say that yes, keep posting at Whedonesque. And I'll be there to back you up EVERY TIME. It feels so good to know you've got my back. And you know I have yours. Always.
...I might have to steal that icon.
Agree. This feels like something new for fandom proper. Don't stop! :D
I think it's great that this is happening. I really, really do! And I'm constantly amazed how my awareness of these issues has broadened to my experiences in everyday life. It feels like I've learned a new language, one that strains my ability for tolerance sometimes when faced with patronizing and even hateful attitudes, but one that I'm ever more grateful for.
ETA: I think it's that the mods perhaps aren't as aware of the issue, perhaps. Which is disappointing, but perhaps this continued discussion will help further "illuminate" and perhaps the mods themselves will become voices of tolerance. Did you see this post by Simon? It made me happy to read his awareness of the issue of this inequality in our society.
I think it's great that this is happening. I really, really do! And I'm constantly amazed how my awareness of these issues has broadened to my experiences in everyday life. It feels like I've learned a new language, one that strains my ability for tolerance sometimes when faced with patronizing and even hateful attitudes, but one that I'm ever more grateful for.
ETA: I think it's that the mods perhaps aren't as aware of the issue, perhaps. Which is disappointing, but perhaps this continued discussion will help further "illuminate" and perhaps the mods themselves will become voices of tolerance. Did you see this post by Simon? It made me happy to read his awareness of the issue of this inequality in our society.
Edited 2010-05-10 20:27 (UTC)
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