Thinky thoughts of the Spike-ish kind

[lirazel]

This is one of those "I'm having a conversation on whedonesque; tell me what you think about what I'm saying" posts.

This particular conversation starts out about Willow/Tara (and my thoughts line up precisely with Emmie's, big surprise there) and then becomes about S6 and then, finally, becomes about Spike.

And I just wrote a novel.

But I feel like I left something vital out.

Any thoughts?

Comments

[next_to_normal]

Well, Giles/Jenny did have some serious trust issues - Jenny needing to take a break after the Eyghon thing, and then lying to Giles (and everyone) about her true identity.

There was that one guy Joyce dated, whom we never saw on screen but he seemed really nice... and then she died. But at least the relationship wasn't messed up!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

True. It's been a while since I've watched the early seasons, so that didn't immediately come to mind (who knows why?).

Yeah. That's the only time it works. WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO DIE.

*sigh*

I wish Joss would get over that....

[next_to_normal]

ME TOO OMG. To be honest, I think that was partly what clouded his judgment about Willow/Tara. He was so concerned with making them as happy as possible so it would hurt more when Tara died that he forgot to think about the implications of Tara taking back a girlfriend who'd abused her.

Unless, of course, Tara's death is meant to be her punishment for forgiving Willow... but I really don't think that's what he was going for.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

He was so concerned with making them as happy as possible so it would hurt more when Tara died that he forgot to think about the implications of Tara taking back a girlfriend who'd abused her.


Exactly. I said something to that effect over at whedonesque (though not nearly as clearly), and I think you're right on. Joss often throws plot-sense-making/continuity/characterization under the bus for the sake of the big emotional payoff. I wish he'd realize that he doesn't have to do the former to get the later. He really can have it all.

[next_to_normal]

*sigh* Yes. Oh yes. I think it was rahirah who said recently that it wouldn't take much to fix Joss' plots so they make sense AND have an emotional payoff, but he just can't be bothered to make the effort. It's probably the thing that frustrates me most about him.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yes, indeed. I sometimes think Joss must have a pretty high opinion of himself that he doesn't think he needs to be careful about these things. It drives me crazy.

I could make a list of all the things he could fix with just a line or two. A LINE OR TWO. And...nothing.

[next_to_normal]

Oh, look. Here's a nice wall. Would you care to join me in bashing our heads against it? lol

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

It would probably be less painful than trying to figure out what the First was up to in S7. Or WHAT WAS THE DEAL with the penultimate episode of Dollhouse. Just for instance.

[next_to_normal]

*thinks*

*thinks more*

*bursts into tears of frustration*

You had to remind me of that Dollhouse ep, didn't you?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I'm never going to stop being upset about that. And angry, too. BOYD? SERIOUSLY?

What makes it even worse is that I actually liked "Epitaph Two." Maybe that's just because my ship came out alive and there were more Topher-and-Adelle moments and Mag and Zone were back (I love them more than I should love any characters who were only there for a few episodes) AND ALPHA. But still. I actually liked it. Which makes the "Hollow Men" THAT MUCH WORSE.

[next_to_normal]

Me too! I was all, "See this, Joss? See what you did there? Why couldn't you do it in the previous episode, too??"

But that's kind of the story of my Joss fannishness. I point to the awesome and say, "Why can't you be like that all the time?"