lirazel: An outdoor scene from the film Picnic at Hanging Rock ([btvs] death is his art)
lirazel ([personal profile] lirazel) wrote2010-03-23 01:33 pm
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Thinky thoughts of the Spike-ish kind

This is one of those "I'm having a conversation on whedonesque; tell me what you think about what I'm saying" posts.

This particular conversation starts out about Willow/Tara (and my thoughts line up precisely with Emmie's, big surprise there) and then becomes about S6 and then, finally, becomes about Spike.

And I just wrote a novel.

But I feel like I left something vital out.

Any thoughts?
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elisi: Edwin and Charles (Chosen by buttersideup)

[personal profile] elisi 2010-03-23 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Started skimming the comments and came across this:

I think Willow post-reeducation with the coven would have been able to find permanent happiness with Tara had the ash-blonde been restored to her.
'The ash-blonde'??? Next does someone mention Buffy's orbs?

Anyway, I got to your comment, and (although I don't agree with everything) this is it, exactly:

that's why "Chosen" is so important: because finally, finally he's found something that's real and his. After searching for it since he was alive. He thought it was what Drusilla offered him in the stable in 1880, but that wasn't it. "Chosen" was it.

(I actually explored this in a fic once, so I've given it a lot of thought.)

[identity profile] penny-lane-42.livejournal.com 2010-03-23 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
'The ash-blonde'??? Next does someone mention Buffy's orbs?
Oh my goodness. I read right over that, and THANK GOD. That's one of my personal fic pet peeves. Wow.

The more I think about Spike's ending in "Chosen," the more absolutely perfect I think it is. I'll have to check your fic out!

Just out of curiosity, what do you disagree with in particular? People have such very, very different views about Spike that I'm always interested in reading other people's.
elisi: Edwin and Charles (Spike/duster Get It Done by the_royal_an)

[personal profile] elisi 2010-03-23 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh my goodness. I read right over that, and THANK GOD. That's one of my personal fic pet peeves. Wow.
I couldn't believe my eyes. I mean, who uses that expression 'in public'?

The more I think about Spike's ending in "Chosen," the more absolutely perfect I think it is. I'll have to check your fic out!
I think you'll like it - I wrote it for the second [livejournal.com profile] summer_of_spike (omg so long ago now...), and I'm still very happy with it. (It's only around 8000 words btw. Somehow I managed to write short chapters.)

Just out of curiosity, what do you disagree with in particular? People have such very, very different views about Spike that I'm always interested in reading other people's.
It's not disagreement as such... It's just that I only see 'Spike the Loser' as one aspect of the character, and not really the most important one [for me]. But I can't fault that view, because he is so wonderfully multifaceted that everyone can take what they want. (Also I skipped the comment you replied to [life's too short, and I've been around long enough to know how the story goes], so it's quite probable that yours was specifically tailored response, and thus I am talking out of my hat. *g*)

[identity profile] penny-lane-42.livejournal.com 2010-03-23 08:05 pm (UTC)(link)
I mean, who uses that expression 'in public'?
HAHAHA! YES.

Oh, okay! That makes sense, and I actually agree (I was reading back through it thinking, "What would another Spike-fan disagree with?" and coming up short). This was definitely written in the context of that person's comment which was that Spike took over the show, and that undermined the show, because the show was about outsiders, and Spike was too cool. So my response was definitely just about that loser aspect (which is very important), and it left out Spike-the-Romantic, Spike-the-Truth-Speaker, Spike-the-Unreliable-Narrator, Spike-the-Definition-of-Bakhtinian-Grotesque, Spike-the-Gender-Bender, Spike-the-Hero, etc.

elisi: Edwin and Charles (All!Penguin AU ftw by gillo)

[personal profile] elisi 2010-03-23 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)
which was that Spike took over the show, and that undermined the show, because the show was about outsiders, and Spike was too cool
Gotcha. I've come across that attitude a few times! :) (This is why I shouldn't write comments when I'm half-asleep.)

And re. the fic it's not about Chosen, as such, but it does deal with the overall issue of what Spike wanted/needed. You'll see what I mean...

[identity profile] penny-lane-42.livejournal.com 2010-03-23 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
PENGUINS! I think the whole penguin thing is my favorite thing that's happened to BtVS fandom in a while. It's just so ridiculously enjoyable. So wank! Just joy! Penguin joy!

I actually first encountered the idea in a review on Salon, a site which typically really loves all things Joss but which seems convinced that Spike "ruined" it because he was "too cool," too. I still think they don't understand the character.

but it does deal with the overall issue of what Spike wanted/needed I'm always up for anything about that.

[identity profile] gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com 2010-03-23 11:30 pm (UTC)(link)
The more I think about Spike's ending in "Chosen," the more absolutely perfect I think it is.

*nods*

And that's why AtS S5 is dead to me.

[identity profile] penny-lane-42.livejournal.com 2010-03-23 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I totally understand that, and on a literary level, it's the only thing that makes sense.

But I let my love of watching Spike and Angel snipe at each other overcome that.... ;)

Plus, since he does come back, that means I get to write lots of happy-ending stories for him and Buffy! *celebrates*
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