Everything goes back to Buffy and Spike...

[lirazel]

The awesome, awesome rebcake and petzipellepingo started a fascinating Spuffy-related conversation in my Dollhouse reaction post. I'm sure not all of you have read it, but I know there are some of you who would be majorly interested, so keep reading for some insights.


Here's how it starts:

rebcake says: Am I the only one watching Echo lose it over Paul and thinking here is the missing scene of Buffy after Spike's (supposed) demise? *whimpers*

petzipellepingo adds: Nope, the whole speech was classic Buffy - especially the "I am always left alone" part and all the regrets for what she never said.
Plus, Ballard was called "Big Bad" Ballard. Joss left a bigger trail of breadcrumbs than Hansel and Gretel over the two of them being surrogates for Spike and Buffy.

ohwaluvusbab then mentions the conversation between Echo and Paul: "I've been knocking 10 years, you've never let me in"/"I've let you in a few times" exchange."

Which of course makes me think of "I seem to recall a certain amount of connecting."/"Oh, please. We were never close." (An interesting inversion there though we both agree that Buffy's totally lying. ;))

And ohwaluvusbab says: Huh. I wouldn't have likened Paul/Echo to S/B of all pairings...

To which petzipellepingo replies: Nor would I until this episode, when suddenly Echo went all Buffy over Spike's Ballards death.
I don't know what got into Joss.

Which made me giggle.

So. Even though I don't really like the Echo/Paul relationship because A) it started out deeply creepy (well, kinda like Buffy and Spike), B) we never got to see the creepy character (Paul) transform, and C) we were supposed to just take the writers' word for it that this was some epic love when we never had any reason to believe it (my high school English teacher is chanting in the back of my head: "Show, don't tell; show, don't tell; show, don't tell.")--despite all that, I think it's a really interesting comparison.

Here's Echo's breakdown, and OMG YES, I can see this being Buffy's breakdown post-"Chosen."

Kill it. Shut it down. Lock him out. Give him nothing. You can string him along for years. You've had years together, and what did you do? Waste it. Never tell him that you love him. Never tell him that you're grateful for him. He's dead. He's dead. He's just...dead. I never told him. [He]'s dead, and I'm alone. I'm all alone. I'm always alone.

Gah. How I wish we'd gotten something like this. Honestly, now that they brought it up, this is gonna be canon for me now: a couple of days post-"Chosen," and Buffy has a breakdown just like this one--maybe with Dawn or Faith in the room. Or maybe even Xander. Someone there to witness it. And then of course Spike comes back and finds her and heals her broken, broken heart and they live happily ever after with much kicking of ass and loud arguments and snarky banter and awesome sex and lots and lots and lots of happiness.

So I'm wondering if anyone else sees any of these breadcrumbs, as petzipellepingo calls them. I'd love to know anyone's thoughts on this, as I find it very interesting.

Anyone?

Comments

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Hee! I'll have to read your review!

I absolutely agree with your theory. It's certainly what I needed. I was sitting there, both during the discussion in the truck ("pretend like you know me") and during Echo's breakdown, and being deeply, deeply weirded out that I almost cared. I definitely think it must have been because of the Buffy/Spike connection.

I also think that eventually I could have cared about those two. I always thought Paul was a major creeper, but then, I felt the same way about Topher at the outset, and now I fangirl him like crazy. If they'd dropped the "Echo is a special snowflake" bit and let Paul have some character development beyond his creepy white-knight complex, I think they could have (eventually) had an interesting relationship--possibly, as you say, Spuffy-esque.

But we'll never know now, will we?

[quinara]

I also think that eventually I could have cared about those two.

*nods* I think the secret with them would have been to make it less dramatic! and overblown! and ZOMG! - because the bit where everyone mocked Paul's "the world still needs heroes, kid" and Echo was just like WTF, dude - I could see something between them then. All the faffing about with coma!Paul and their "connection" being sacrificed for the active architecture didn't work for me at all.

Alas, no. (Though we have more to go on than Firefly, and just look what people make of that!)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I completely agree. The whole "she likes it when you're corny" thing worked for me, too--the mockage and the affection there. It could have worked for me.

All the faffing about with coma!Paul and their "connection" being sacrificed for the active architecture didn't work for me at all.
I hated it. In much the same way that I hated in AtS when suddenly Cordy stopped acting like Cordy and her and Angel's relationship was FATED LOVE OMG instead of her being the one to call him out when he was being broody and stupid.

(Though we have more to go on than Firefly, and just look what people make of that!)
True! I'm so incredibly excited about the idea of fic for this fandom!

[quinara]

I hated in AtS when suddenly Cordy stopped acting like Cordy and her and Angel's relationship was FATED LOVE OMG instead of her being the one to call him out when he was being broody and stupid.

Yes!! The moment Groo cam back I started rolling my eyes with C/A - which meant that by the time the super!special!irony of Tomorrow came along I'd basically stopped caring.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, the Groo thing was just stupid. And then she dressed him up like Angel? This is not Cordy. I'm still annoyed.