Everything goes back to Buffy and Spike...

[lirazel]

The awesome, awesome rebcake and petzipellepingo started a fascinating Spuffy-related conversation in my Dollhouse reaction post. I'm sure not all of you have read it, but I know there are some of you who would be majorly interested, so keep reading for some insights.


Here's how it starts:

rebcake says: Am I the only one watching Echo lose it over Paul and thinking here is the missing scene of Buffy after Spike's (supposed) demise? *whimpers*

petzipellepingo adds: Nope, the whole speech was classic Buffy - especially the "I am always left alone" part and all the regrets for what she never said.
Plus, Ballard was called "Big Bad" Ballard. Joss left a bigger trail of breadcrumbs than Hansel and Gretel over the two of them being surrogates for Spike and Buffy.

ohwaluvusbab then mentions the conversation between Echo and Paul: "I've been knocking 10 years, you've never let me in"/"I've let you in a few times" exchange."

Which of course makes me think of "I seem to recall a certain amount of connecting."/"Oh, please. We were never close." (An interesting inversion there though we both agree that Buffy's totally lying. ;))

And ohwaluvusbab says: Huh. I wouldn't have likened Paul/Echo to S/B of all pairings...

To which petzipellepingo replies: Nor would I until this episode, when suddenly Echo went all Buffy over Spike's Ballards death.
I don't know what got into Joss.

Which made me giggle.

So. Even though I don't really like the Echo/Paul relationship because A) it started out deeply creepy (well, kinda like Buffy and Spike), B) we never got to see the creepy character (Paul) transform, and C) we were supposed to just take the writers' word for it that this was some epic love when we never had any reason to believe it (my high school English teacher is chanting in the back of my head: "Show, don't tell; show, don't tell; show, don't tell.")--despite all that, I think it's a really interesting comparison.

Here's Echo's breakdown, and OMG YES, I can see this being Buffy's breakdown post-"Chosen."

Kill it. Shut it down. Lock him out. Give him nothing. You can string him along for years. You've had years together, and what did you do? Waste it. Never tell him that you love him. Never tell him that you're grateful for him. He's dead. He's dead. He's just...dead. I never told him. [He]'s dead, and I'm alone. I'm all alone. I'm always alone.

Gah. How I wish we'd gotten something like this. Honestly, now that they brought it up, this is gonna be canon for me now: a couple of days post-"Chosen," and Buffy has a breakdown just like this one--maybe with Dawn or Faith in the room. Or maybe even Xander. Someone there to witness it. And then of course Spike comes back and finds her and heals her broken, broken heart and they live happily ever after with much kicking of ass and loud arguments and snarky banter and awesome sex and lots and lots and lots of happiness.

So I'm wondering if anyone else sees any of these breadcrumbs, as petzipellepingo calls them. I'd love to know anyone's thoughts on this, as I find it very interesting.

Anyone?

Comments

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

First of all, Ballard/Echo isn't a patch on Spike/Buffy - there's none of the richness and deep complex layers of their relationship- but there are bits ("breadcrumbs") that remind me of Spike/Buffy.

You've got Ballard sleeping with Mellie while pining over Echo (shades of Dru and Harmoney), you've got Ballard taking care of Echo while they are on the run without getting anything as a reward (shades of the Riley era) and you've got him willing to die getting her back to the L.A. Dollhouse ("Chosen"). Like I said earlier, not a good match because Joss never seemed as interested in exploring their relationship and maybe he should have because it might have made the show a lot more interesting. But he didn't so all we have are breadcrumbs.

On the other hand, maybe he just threw that scene in to apologize for recent developments in the Season Eight comics "cough, Twilight, cough".

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

there's none of the richness and deep complex layers of their relationship Certainly not. Not only was there not time, but also, I don't think we're ever going to get a relationship of that kind that's that deep and nuanced again.

But your breadcrumbs are so interesting to me! And yeah: he should have gone more into it if he expected us to invest.

On the other hand, maybe he just threw that scene in to apologize for recent developments in the Season Eight comics "cough, Twilight, cough".
Hahaha!