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this is a very long post about my social anxiety issues
So here's the thing: my social anxiety issues are getting worse with time. I've always been shy around people I don't know (and then talkative when I'm comfortable around people--and as a kid I was super bossy, too, though I've mostly gotten over that), and that's fine. I have also always been an introvert, really relishing alone time and time spent in solo activities (mostly reading as a kid and making up stories in my head, then as I got older there was the internet and writing and TV). But I just don't think that before I hit college age that I had this much difficulty interacting with people. Strangers? Yes, I was always uncomfortable around them. But I really don't think that other kinds of interactions resulted in much anxiety. (Telephone calls aside. I HAVE ALWAYS HATED TALKING ON THE PHONE).
But now it's like with each year that passes I am more and more uncomfortable talking with people in social settings. I'm fine, say, going up and asking for help at a store or talking about work-related things at work. I'm fine with my family and good friends. I'm even fine making telephone calls when I have a set end in mind and once I'm actually talking to the person (the run-up to it is still nerve-wracking for me; I still rehearse things in my head and if needed write them down. And I still order my pizzas online so I don't have to call them in).
Really what I'm discovering is that I'm fine if I'm A) really comfortable around the person or B) in a situation where the dialogue of the conversation has already been "written" because there's a concrete outcome I want to achieve [finding that thing at the store, sharing work information with coworkers, addressing the issue with my bank account, whatever]. It's other kinds of conversations that are so, so hard for me. While I'm glad that I can take care of the practical side of life well enough (I can't imagine how much harder life is if you can't), my social abilities are really lacking.
This makes making new friends really, really hard. Most of my friends moved out of town post-graduation, and I haven't made a new set. I'm mostly okay with this, having my family (immediate and extended), my BFF, and all of my internet friends. But I really like my church and I would like to feel more a part of the community there (both because I just want to and because that's a huge part of my faith--the importance of the church community), but I cannot reach out to people. I can't do it. I've been going to this church for a year now and I haven't made any friends. Back at the end of last year/beginning of this year, there were a few months where once a month some of the single people got together just for dinner. And that was nice--I wasn't close to them or anything, but I liked them all. That sort of tapered off when the warm weather rolled around, and so I haven't seen any of them in a long time. I sometimes think I won't make any new friends in real life ever again. [I know this isn't true, but that's the way it feels.] It's like when I'm talking to someone and the relationship is entirely professional or I won't ever see that person again (cashiers, waiters, co-workers, whatever), I can function fine. But if there's any possibility at all of there being a more social relationship, I just can't handle it.
And on top of that, I dread seeing people I know and talking to them. Today it was a wedding for a girl I grew up with at church, so I was back at my parents' church, and I knew almost everyone there, and I could not wait to leave. They are all lovely people! I genuinely like most of them! But I do not want to talk to them! I avoid it when at all possible, not making eye contact and even pretending not to see people when I really did see them. Because making small-talk is excruciating. I have to remind myself that when someone else asks me how I am, it's polite to ask them back. I often forget and then only remember after an awkward pause. I can't think of things to say, and when I do say things, I end up regretting it later.
And then there's the "What are you up to now?" question, which is really just the bane of my existence. I'm not in any way of ashamed of having a nothing office job. Sure, I'd rather be doing something else, but my parents raised me not to think that I was better than any kind of work. It's honest work and I'm doing it, so I'm fine with it. And with people I'm close to or with strangers, I can talk about it with ease. But when it's someone else, I hate having to answer the question because, inevitably, there's this flash of surprise on their face. And I know why. I was always the smart girl, the one people thought would go really far in life. I have a big brain and my teachers always adored me (though I will say I have always thought that my teachers were much more impressed with me than they should have been; I always felt like I was fleecing them into thinking I'm actually smarter than I am. But that's a different post). They expect me to be doing something Important. I have anxiety about people judging me, and I always worry that they will. [I do not know why people somehow don't ask me if I'm dating anyone, because that would be horrible to answer, too. Somehow they don't ask me that, though--which is strange considering that I live in a place where most people my age are married/getting married--and I am very grateful. Maybe they think it's beyond the realm of possibility? Who knows.]
OH AND THEN. There's this idea of keeping up with people. The BFF and I get together pretty often, but other than that, I never see old friends, really. I've never really been the kind of person people invite to things. That sounds self-pitying, but it's true. I had a pretty active social life in three out of my four years of college (freshman year is better not spoken of, like, ever) because our English department was AMAZING and we were always doing nerdy-people things together. It was fantastic. And I knew those people from my classes, so I had met them in an environment where I was comfortable. Basically the whole thing was tailor-made for me, and the loss of it has been a great blow to me. And I've fallen out of touch with most of those people. Part of this is because of my hatred of phones and the fact that I don't text or really give my number out to many people. Oh, and I don't get on facebook anymore. A big part of this is because I'm just not the kind of person who feels the need to keep up with people--if I don't see you, I don't see you, but we'll pick up exactly where we left off once we do see each other again. But apparently other people don't function that way? It makes me feel really isolated when on the VERY rare occasions I get on facebook and see mutual friends interacting. But I don't know how to reach out.
There is no "reason" I should feel this way, so it frustrates people who love me. They remind me that I'm attractive enough and interesting and smart and eloquent when I'm comfortable. [I know most of my interests are esoteric, but that's always been okay with me.] They remind me that people don't spend nearly as much time thinking about me as my head convinces me that they do (I know this intellectually. It just doesn't help anything). My mama understands, but the rest of my family really doesn't, and so they're always giving me well-meaning advice. Nearly EVERY TIME I interact with someone in front of my sister, she tells me afterwards "You shouldn't say such-and-such" or "You should act this way when you get asked whatever." She really wants to help, but she just DOES NOT UNDERSTAND. And seeing how frustrated she gets makes me feel like she's annoyed or ashamed of me.
But the whole point is that this isn't logical. I know people don't judge me as much as I think they do. I know that they forget about that stupid thing I said pretty fast. I know that just because I assume that everyone just puts up with me because they're too nice not to doesn't mean that that's true. I know all that. But it doesn't change how I feel. It doesn't make any of it easier. My experience with mental health issues has always been dominated by the disconnect between how I feel and what I know to be true intellectually, and never is this more true than when it comes to my social anxiety problems.
It's all really hard, is what I'm saying, and it seems to be getting harder as time passes. And that worries me, because I'm young yet, and the idea that it's just going to keep getting worse makes me flashforward to fifteen years from now and me being unable to leave the house. And while part of me is terrified of that, another part of me thinks it sounds perfectly okay. [Once I confessed to some family members that I didn't think that prison sounded that bad--I could read all day and have other people make my meals, whatever. It was a joke (mostly) but I was cautioned never to tell anyone else that ever again.]
All of this makes me very, very grateful for the people I'm comfortable around--my family, my few good friends, and my wonderful online friends (whose friendships are just as important to me as any in "real life"). I also marvel when I think back on Spuffycon last year--when quite a few of my fandom friends got together and I didn't feel all that uncomfortable almost at all. I can't believe that really happened! (We should do that again.)
I've mostly got my depression under control through the help of medication and a lot of self-awareness. There are still times I have trouble concentrating or whatever, but I've reached the point where it's livable. I can handle it. But I'm beginning to see how powerless I am in the face of my social anxiety issues. And I don't know what to do.
But now it's like with each year that passes I am more and more uncomfortable talking with people in social settings. I'm fine, say, going up and asking for help at a store or talking about work-related things at work. I'm fine with my family and good friends. I'm even fine making telephone calls when I have a set end in mind and once I'm actually talking to the person (the run-up to it is still nerve-wracking for me; I still rehearse things in my head and if needed write them down. And I still order my pizzas online so I don't have to call them in).
Really what I'm discovering is that I'm fine if I'm A) really comfortable around the person or B) in a situation where the dialogue of the conversation has already been "written" because there's a concrete outcome I want to achieve [finding that thing at the store, sharing work information with coworkers, addressing the issue with my bank account, whatever]. It's other kinds of conversations that are so, so hard for me. While I'm glad that I can take care of the practical side of life well enough (I can't imagine how much harder life is if you can't), my social abilities are really lacking.
This makes making new friends really, really hard. Most of my friends moved out of town post-graduation, and I haven't made a new set. I'm mostly okay with this, having my family (immediate and extended), my BFF, and all of my internet friends. But I really like my church and I would like to feel more a part of the community there (both because I just want to and because that's a huge part of my faith--the importance of the church community), but I cannot reach out to people. I can't do it. I've been going to this church for a year now and I haven't made any friends. Back at the end of last year/beginning of this year, there were a few months where once a month some of the single people got together just for dinner. And that was nice--I wasn't close to them or anything, but I liked them all. That sort of tapered off when the warm weather rolled around, and so I haven't seen any of them in a long time. I sometimes think I won't make any new friends in real life ever again. [I know this isn't true, but that's the way it feels.] It's like when I'm talking to someone and the relationship is entirely professional or I won't ever see that person again (cashiers, waiters, co-workers, whatever), I can function fine. But if there's any possibility at all of there being a more social relationship, I just can't handle it.
And on top of that, I dread seeing people I know and talking to them. Today it was a wedding for a girl I grew up with at church, so I was back at my parents' church, and I knew almost everyone there, and I could not wait to leave. They are all lovely people! I genuinely like most of them! But I do not want to talk to them! I avoid it when at all possible, not making eye contact and even pretending not to see people when I really did see them. Because making small-talk is excruciating. I have to remind myself that when someone else asks me how I am, it's polite to ask them back. I often forget and then only remember after an awkward pause. I can't think of things to say, and when I do say things, I end up regretting it later.
And then there's the "What are you up to now?" question, which is really just the bane of my existence. I'm not in any way of ashamed of having a nothing office job. Sure, I'd rather be doing something else, but my parents raised me not to think that I was better than any kind of work. It's honest work and I'm doing it, so I'm fine with it. And with people I'm close to or with strangers, I can talk about it with ease. But when it's someone else, I hate having to answer the question because, inevitably, there's this flash of surprise on their face. And I know why. I was always the smart girl, the one people thought would go really far in life. I have a big brain and my teachers always adored me (though I will say I have always thought that my teachers were much more impressed with me than they should have been; I always felt like I was fleecing them into thinking I'm actually smarter than I am. But that's a different post). They expect me to be doing something Important. I have anxiety about people judging me, and I always worry that they will. [I do not know why people somehow don't ask me if I'm dating anyone, because that would be horrible to answer, too. Somehow they don't ask me that, though--which is strange considering that I live in a place where most people my age are married/getting married--and I am very grateful. Maybe they think it's beyond the realm of possibility? Who knows.]
OH AND THEN. There's this idea of keeping up with people. The BFF and I get together pretty often, but other than that, I never see old friends, really. I've never really been the kind of person people invite to things. That sounds self-pitying, but it's true. I had a pretty active social life in three out of my four years of college (freshman year is better not spoken of, like, ever) because our English department was AMAZING and we were always doing nerdy-people things together. It was fantastic. And I knew those people from my classes, so I had met them in an environment where I was comfortable. Basically the whole thing was tailor-made for me, and the loss of it has been a great blow to me. And I've fallen out of touch with most of those people. Part of this is because of my hatred of phones and the fact that I don't text or really give my number out to many people. Oh, and I don't get on facebook anymore. A big part of this is because I'm just not the kind of person who feels the need to keep up with people--if I don't see you, I don't see you, but we'll pick up exactly where we left off once we do see each other again. But apparently other people don't function that way? It makes me feel really isolated when on the VERY rare occasions I get on facebook and see mutual friends interacting. But I don't know how to reach out.
There is no "reason" I should feel this way, so it frustrates people who love me. They remind me that I'm attractive enough and interesting and smart and eloquent when I'm comfortable. [I know most of my interests are esoteric, but that's always been okay with me.] They remind me that people don't spend nearly as much time thinking about me as my head convinces me that they do (I know this intellectually. It just doesn't help anything). My mama understands, but the rest of my family really doesn't, and so they're always giving me well-meaning advice. Nearly EVERY TIME I interact with someone in front of my sister, she tells me afterwards "You shouldn't say such-and-such" or "You should act this way when you get asked whatever." She really wants to help, but she just DOES NOT UNDERSTAND. And seeing how frustrated she gets makes me feel like she's annoyed or ashamed of me.
But the whole point is that this isn't logical. I know people don't judge me as much as I think they do. I know that they forget about that stupid thing I said pretty fast. I know that just because I assume that everyone just puts up with me because they're too nice not to doesn't mean that that's true. I know all that. But it doesn't change how I feel. It doesn't make any of it easier. My experience with mental health issues has always been dominated by the disconnect between how I feel and what I know to be true intellectually, and never is this more true than when it comes to my social anxiety problems.
It's all really hard, is what I'm saying, and it seems to be getting harder as time passes. And that worries me, because I'm young yet, and the idea that it's just going to keep getting worse makes me flashforward to fifteen years from now and me being unable to leave the house. And while part of me is terrified of that, another part of me thinks it sounds perfectly okay. [Once I confessed to some family members that I didn't think that prison sounded that bad--I could read all day and have other people make my meals, whatever. It was a joke (mostly) but I was cautioned never to tell anyone else that ever again.]
All of this makes me very, very grateful for the people I'm comfortable around--my family, my few good friends, and my wonderful online friends (whose friendships are just as important to me as any in "real life"). I also marvel when I think back on Spuffycon last year--when quite a few of my fandom friends got together and I didn't feel all that uncomfortable almost at all. I can't believe that really happened! (We should do that again.)
I've mostly got my depression under control through the help of medication and a lot of self-awareness. There are still times I have trouble concentrating or whatever, but I've reached the point where it's livable. I can handle it. But I'm beginning to see how powerless I am in the face of my social anxiety issues. And I don't know what to do.
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I sometimes think I won't make any new friends in real life ever again.
WHY ARE YOU ME?!!?
I understand this and... have (somewhat) the opposite feels? If that makes sense. I fall in love with pretty much everyone I meet and have a tendency to force myself onto people with a bizarre intensity I can't even explain... and then it all falls apart. I feel like a dork for being so open and personal with people who probably don't care. And then I get all twisted up in that awkwardness...
Which is related to:
Because making small-talk is excruciating.
My best-gay started FORCING me to make small-talk in the elevator because I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. When people ask how my day is going: I WILL TELL THEM, usually my entire life story. Which most people don't reciprocate and then I feel awkward and sort of like: Words are important and they are our only means of connecting with people, WHY would I use them so frivolously? ... it's a really hard thing for me to wrap my brain around and leads to me secluding myself for
daysweeks at a time.so they're always giving me well-meaning advice
A good friend of mine basically told me that I flirt with everyone, which made me nervous and awkward. I usually freeze up because I don't want to come on too strong, so I just don't say anything at all.
Boundaries? I don't have them. I'm either all in or all out. I get nervous thinking about seeing/talking to my best friend because I'm sure that she's just putting up with me (though... the reason for that I'm still not clear on)
I know that just because I assume that everyone just puts up with me because they're too nice not to doesn't mean that that's true. I know all that. But it doesn't change how I feel. It doesn't make any of it easier.
SOB. You are IN MY HEAD! ((HUGS))
I think anxiety (any form, but probably esp social anxiety) is so much MORE difficult to deal with - if you are smart enough and self-aware enough to know what's going on. My ex-roomie would get so frustrated - because I could explain to her EXACTLY how I know that my brain interprets things differently, that I KNOW what I feel isn't true... for her Understanding = Feeling. That's. SO NOT how it works.
my wonderful online friends (whose friendships are just as important to me as any in "real life")
IDK how I would have gotten through the past year without my amazing flist.
My therapist put me in two group-therapy sessions this semester and it's difficult explaining to them how connected I am to people who are so far away from me, but right now the amount of time that I spend reaching out to people via lj/phone/facebk ... doesn't help with the very visceral need I have for CUDDLES. Seriously. I am cuddly. (Most people only notice when I'm drinking.) LACK OF PERSONAL BOUNDARIES IS ME.
But I'm beginning to see how powerless I am in the face of my social anxiety issues. And I don't know what to do.
My best-gay made me start out small, he held my hand and guided me through elevator-talk a few times before I was able to do it alone. Maybe also just starting small? A comment on a facebook status once a week. Or a simple text-message to someone from church once a week. It seems bizarre, but this is the way (most) people - esp of this generation - communicate. And! Looking up and smiling at someone you know when in a social situation, sometimes will lead to them coming up to you?
And, you know - most people are more awkward than we give them credit for being. I think it's totally rad that you have diverse interests and say bizarre things in conversations. Pay attention - a lot of people are dorky and respond uncomfortably in conversations. *hugs* It isn't just you - or just me. I think it's about OWNING your own quirky, wonderful self.
I understand how exhausting it is. I wish I could bring over ice-cream and wrap you up in kdramas and love <3333
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YES. This is so true. Especially the part about owning your own weirdness. I KNOW that a great deal of my anxiety stems from this overwhelming fear of judgment. And, honestly, getting to the point where my depression and anxiety actually was killing me has helped me with this. By realizing that I don't have to care what other people's expectations for my behavior are, and that, really, I can't care--because it's going to cause me to recede back into the shell of myself that I was when I was so deeply depressed, I've started to be able to just let go of some of that fear of judgment. I mean, I still fear it, but it's not controlling me quite so much.
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(We should do that again.)
This times a MILLION.
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Thank you, hon. ♥
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That's no small thing.
You're right, it's a very powerful thing.
Being able to vent is hugely helpful, and I'm particularly blessed in that regard because I do have a few people in my life, online and otherwise, who I feel completely comfortable being open with. And that's amazing.
Thank you for your kind words!
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I can't really give you any deep or wise advice, but I can at least sympathize? I'm not exactly like you, but many of the things you describe also happen to me.
I keep thinking... If you have no problem making friends online, maybe it's just that you don't meet the right people irl? Fandom friends, college friends, you have/had something to talk about with. What would you talk about with random people? Especially if they're not interesting?
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I appreciate the hugs!
You're definitely right about people--the problem is figuring out where to find the people who are like me! Online, it's easy. In college, I had people in my classes who chose to study the same things I do. It was like a built-in way of making friends. Out in the wide world, though, it's much more difficult finding those people who you can connect with.
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YES PLEASE.
Also I would like to say that I would invite you to ALL THE THINGS. And also that I am totally the same way as you in that I expect to just pick up with people where I left off with them. I used to be much better at keeping up with them, but I'm bad at it now, and I've decided I'm okay with that, because some weeks I'm pretty bad at keeping track of the handful of RL friends that I do want to keep in touch (all of whom live in other states, BTW, except for the roommate).
I am so sorry that you're finding social things so stifling. I wish you lived closer so I could give you lots of hugs (and also invite you to dinner).
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And also that I am totally the same way as you in that I expect to just pick up with people where I left off with them. I used to be much better at keeping up with them, but I'm bad at it now, and I've decided I'm okay with that, because some weeks I'm pretty bad at keeping track of the handful of RL friends that I do want to keep in touch
Yes, exactly! I am okay with it on my side, it's that I'm not sure if they're okay with it, you know? Like I wonder if they still feel close to me the way I do to them? With some of my friends I know that they do; with others, I worry.
I wish you lived closer so I could give you lots of hugs (and also invite you to dinner).
That would be so lovely!
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I know exactly how frustrating it is to deal with this, especially when you understand yourself so well and still can't get your around to deal with it properly. It doesn't help me at all that my family can't seem to understand what i go through and keep pushing me over the edge. Sometimes we just need to be alone and not at all around people, because of reasons, and the whole questioning "aren't you going out?" "why don't you leave your room?" and the most obviously annoying one "why do you pay more attention to your computer than in trying to get new friends irl?", oh the questioning, it doesn't make it any better.
I sometimes force myself to go out (with my sister and her friends), but it's not exactly like i'm having a good time but i just put on a smile on my face and try to talk to people (when i'm not checking my phone the whole night because online life > real life). And OMG the small talk, why is that even a thing? I am so awkward when people talk to me, sometimes even over the internet (who ever thought IM/facebook chat were a good idea, thought wrong), because i like being straight to point on things and small talk just upsets me and i feel like i'm wasting my time, idk. Even when it's someone from my family coming over to tell me something or make a small comment i don't even know how to respond properly without coming off rude because i'm generally not interested in their issues.
It just sucks and even though i completely understand the way my mind works, doesn't mean i will automatically be 'cured' or something. It just doesn't work this way. I'm sorry for rambling but i felt like you were describing my life right there and how a suposedly simple thing like going to a social occasion can bring us such trouble. Also, i apologize for any spelling mistakes, english is not my first language and i didn't proofread this.
But take some cookies and blanket and my hopeful wishes you (and I!) overcome this one day.
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especially when you understand yourself so well and still can't get your around to deal with it properly
Yes, exactly. I read somewhere the more self-aware people are more prone to depression, which seems both fitting and really sad at the same time.
It doesn't help me at all that my family can't seem to understand what i go through and keep pushing me over the edge. Sometimes we just need to be alone and not at all around people, because of reasons, and the whole questioning "aren't you going out?" "why don't you leave your room?" and the most obviously annoying one "why do you pay more attention to your computer than in trying to get new friends irl?", oh the questioning, it doesn't make it any better.
Ugh, I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. Both of my parents are introverts, so they're pretty good about understanding. But other people in my life aren't, and I've heard those questions and know how grating they can be.
No need for apologies! Your English is great and my journal is all about people embracing their feelings, so you can ramble as much as you need to. I'm sorry you're dealing with the same thing, but I send hopeful wishes to you, too!
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-30 12:37 am (UTC)(link)i just wanted to let you that i'm the same way. i absolutely detest making new friends because i feel like it leaves me so vulnerable and i have to act a certain way. i end up hiding away or keeping mainly to myself. i especially hate going to meet completely new people by myself because i am just that awkward and unable to make good conversation/seem interesting. another bad thing about me is that when i DO end up going to a new environment with friends, i end up just sticking with that one person and latching on to them while they are being social. along with that, i'm terrible in big groups of people, say over 6-7 people? especially when they're people i'm unfamiliar with. i end up just being a listener and not really saying much. i'm semi-ok if it's more small group/one on one stuff. maybe its because i feel like there are less people judging me? i don't know.
I avoid it when at all possible, not making eye contact and even pretending not to see people when I really did see them.
i just did this about two weeks to my friend's mom. i saw my friend's mom in a store and i was literally standing right across from the rack from her, looking at the same thing. when i looked up and realized it was her, i kinda quickly scurried away since i just did not feel like talking...
what's helping me a bit is that my job kind of forces me to make small talk, one on one with complete strangers. believe it or not sometimes i actually find it relaxing. so maybe making small talk to a complete stranger isn't such a bad idea, like maybe while you're on some sort of public transportation or something since you might not ever see the person ever again anyway. even if they do judge you, it doesn't matter.
It's all really hard, is what I'm saying, and it seems to be getting harder as time passes. And that worries me, because I'm young yet, and the idea that it's just going to keep getting worse makes me flashforward to fifteen years from now and me being unable to leave the house.
i secretly worry a bit about this too, i mean especially when i think about getting into a relationship and stuff. i feel like for me to like someone
i can actually date, i need to actually meet someone new and get to know them, i feel like i would never be able to just go out on a date if someone asked meunless it was sungyeol. in all seriousness though, at this point, i would only consider dating someone that i actually know, but i don't want to date anyone i'm close with. yet i am so not good at making friends that the circle of people i know will never expand and i will never have a boyfriend again.wow, i feel like this entire comment made absolutely no sense whatsoever and i'm sorry for this mess that i've left, but i just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and i'm totally there with you.
-mel
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i end up hiding away or keeping mainly to myself. i especially hate going to meet completely new people by myself because i am just that awkward and unable to make good conversation/seem interesting. another bad thing about me is that when i DO end up going to a new environment with friends, i end up just sticking with that one person and latching on to them while they are being social.
Yes, this is how I am. And small groups are wonderful--the bigger the group, the less I tend to enjoy myself.
so maybe making small talk to a complete stranger isn't such a bad idea, like maybe while you're on some sort of public transportation or something since you might not ever see the person ever again anyway. even if they do judge you, it doesn't matter.
Good point!
in all seriousness though, at this point, i would only consider dating someone that i actually know, but i don't want to date anyone i'm close with. yet i am so not good at making friends that the circle of people i know will never expand and i will never have a boyfriend again.
I feel the same way. Most of the time I'm okay with the fact that I've never been in a relationship, but other times I want it SO BAD.
No need to apologize at all--everything you said made sense, and you're welcome here whenever. I am sorry you're dealing with similar stuff--here's hoping we both get better at social interaction!
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I don't think that gadding about without a worry is all that common. I guess I'm saying that you seem in the realm of "normal" on this point. Whatever that means. As I get older, I find myself skipping a lot of the social events I would have made myself go to earlier in life, because life's too short to do a bunch of stuff you don't enjoy.
But you don't seem entirely satisfied with the way things are. Feeling isolated isn't fun. It IS hard to make friends after college, outside of the obvious places: work, church, places of volunteerism. These days you have the added option of finding people who share your esoteric interests online, but they are often not geographically close, alas. (McDiva said the other day that there should be retirement communities that mimic social media: LiveJournal Estates, tumblr Village, et al. Heh.) I made a few friends after college, but it was almost always because I was working on some sort of project with them -- art, music, raising little humans. That gave us a framework within which to get to know each other. I'm betting that all it would take is one or two new people in your life, and you would feel more connected and less isolated. But finding those precious few? Tricky stuff.
{{{hugs}}}
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Well, the problem is that at my church, most people do seem to have real relationships, and the church I grew up in I definitely did, which makes my current situation even sadder, really. Because I know it doesn't have to be this way.
I guess I'm saying that you seem in the realm of "normal" on this point.
Thanks for that!
McDiva said the other day that there should be retirement communities that mimic social media: LiveJournal Estates, tumblr Village, et al. Heh
SIGN ME UP.
I made a few friends after college, but it was almost always because I was working on some sort of project with them -- art, music, raising little humans. That gave us a framework within which to get to know each other. I'm betting that all it would take is one or two new people in your life, and you would feel more connected and less isolated. But finding those precious few? Tricky stuff.
Yes, you're exactly right. I don't need tons of friends--I don't even want tons of friends. Just a few good ones here in the flesh. But I haven't had those sorts of projects yet in order to forge them. Tricky indeed.
Thanks for the hugs and perspective!
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Meh, I wish I had more helpful things to say here, but: me too everything.
{hugs}
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*hugs*
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Feeling like making friends has gotten harder. Yes.
2. Except with the one person I might ask to go hang out with me, I don't really talk to anyone at work. I'm good at the small talk - good morning, how are you, I like your blouse - but when it's slow and everyone's standing around chatting, I'd rather be in the office by myself knitting or doing homework. This is something I've only recently noticed I do. In other situations I'm still okay with small talk, but I'll stick like glue to my parents or sister and avoid going out of my way to talk to someone I know.
Keeping in touch has to be forced with me. I have to make a conscious effort to contact someone, and even then it's just a Facebook message wishing them a happy birthday. I recently sent a message of encouragement to a high school acquaintance who has come out as trans this year, because it was on my heart, but that is the rare occasion when I do something like that. Facebook is the devil, it tells me everyone is hanging out without me (I loved Mindy Kaling's book by the same name, btw). It tells me people are in relationships, getting married, having babies, and I have none of that in my life. Most of the time this doesn't bother me (except when this one girl posts pictures of her kid every friggen' day. No, I don't need a picture showing Cohen taking a nap again!). I have this dream world where everything's going to get better once I go to grad school - I'll meet my future spouse and best friends, actually go out, and be as sociable as I want to. I've even put a religious spin on this - God is holding everything in His hands, waiting for the right time to give me a boyfriend or friends. I should just trust in Him. Then I get pessimistic and depressed and think I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life.
I seriously think we should just name a place and a date two years in the future (so everyone can save up), and have a giant LJ meet up. Instead of just thinking about it, actually going forwards and doing it. How about Chicago? Chicago is in the middle of the US (sorry people outside the US, I'm being very American-centric right now), and do it. What's everyone doing June 15 and 16, 2014? Let's get off our asses and actually plan something. Make it nearly binding, lika a wedding date where other things have to be scheduled around the meet up. It's that important.
I really can't do much more than say "me, too," for most of this post. I really don't have any advice, because I'm in the same exact situation. Outside of the semi-official LJ meet up, I don't have any idea what to do. But hugs and cuddles all the same.
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The Universe's biggest joke: That my flist doesn't live next door.
((HUGS))
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So... I don't know what to say. And I know you don't need advice, but I'm gonna offer it anyway. Because this post is really, truly like a perfect description of how my anxiety issues play out, and my issues have improved a lot over the last year or so. So... I don't know what exactly your regimen is, mental-health-wise, but you might consider adding anxiety-specific medication if you don't already take something. It helps me get through the day--but I still have issues. It's just that now, I'm not constantly running thousands of scenarios in my head before every single interaction. For me, my breaking point--the point that I knew I needed some sort of chemical help--was when my anxiety became so bad that my throat actually started closing up and I was just crabby all the time at anyone who had the audacity to interact with me. The medication I'm on (Buspirione) helps with that sort of more extreme stuff, but I still don't feel like it's controlled the way that my depression is. So, honestly, I've been thinking about going to a psychiatrist for medication (right now, my prescriptions are through my primary care practitioner)--because I feel like a psychiatrist would maybe be more knowledgable about the subtleties of how certain drugs might work for me. I don't know.
Additionally, like I said, I've been thinking about trying talk-therapy to work on my anxiety. When I first went to a therapist a while back, she wanted me to do things I just wasn't ready to do to work on the anxiety--she wanted me to go into the breakroom at work or talk to people or something. Basically, anything that freaked me out, she wanted me to try it in small doses. But I was really, really falling apart at the time. The depression and anxiety were uncontrolled and I just couldn't take that sort of action. I just couldn't.
Now that my depression is controlled and my anxiety is slightly controlled, I feel a lot more likely to be able to ~do~ things that may help with my anxiety. I mean, hey--I got a smart phone this summer and I actually use it. Probably not as much as most people use their phones--but I answer texts and check the voicemail somewhat regularly. I even call people back. Frankly, the whole texting thing is perfect for me. I can have casual silly conversations with people or exchange basic needed info (like meeting times and places), and I don't have to worry about how I sound--if I sound boring or depressed or disinterested or over-eager or just dumb.
to be continued...
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Anyway, so my sister's super pregnant now. And one of the things I was most freaked out about when she told me she was pregnant was how I was gonna react with the whole new-friendship situation. If my sister wasn't hanging out with us--was I going to be able to hang out with them? Would they even want to hang out with me? Well, last week, since my sister is now enormous and uncomfortable and 1 week from her due date, she stopped coming to trivia night. And I went anyway. And everything was fine. All good. Fun, even. And almost no weirdness. And I've made plans to hang out with them one-on-one, and we've texted back and forth. I almost feel like a normal person sometimes.
SO, the moral of the story is that it isn't hopeless. But that you might have to be terrified from time to time.
Ooh. Also, when I was reading what you said about wanting to reach out at church, I sort of wondered whether there was something like a bible study class or group. I mean, that sounds like the sort of setting you'd maybe be more comfortable in--there's the structure of knowing what is going to be discussed and it's sort of like a classroom-esque type of setting... I don't know. Maybe that doesn't even really happen at churches. It's been a million years since I've been to church.
Enough of my blathering. I adore you. And so will anyone else in the world who's not a jerk. *more hugs*
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What helps me the most is having one person to go places with me, kind of like a security blanket, someone really outgoing and talkative who does all my socializing for me. Not necessarily optimal but it works for me.
I even go through phases on the internet, sometimes I'm fine and interact and comment, sometimes I can't get myself to type.
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This works for me, too--it's such a good way of coping. I don't really have that kind of person at the moment is the problem, but when I do things are so much easier.
Thank you for sharing--it makes me feel better to know that I'm not alone in this.
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Advice isn't always what I need--sometimes I just need sympathy, and you gave me that! Thanks, hon!
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As I have gotten older I have turned into one of those obnoxious social butterfly people, idek. But. I also have anxiety issues and they suck. And I also know how it feels to love and cherish your alonetime, so.
<3
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Thank you!
*hugs back*
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Seriously, though, you pretty much described me here. I've always been shy and introverted, even on Finnish scale - I never really had any close friends when growing up, I hated talking on the phone (still do) and having to be social in parties etc. In university I then did something I never thought I'd do and signed up for a drama class. The next six months working with the theatre group was absolutely terrifying (the leader of our group was very ambitious, and in the end our play ended up doing three nights on the main stage of the third biggest theatre in the city), but it helped me get over my worst anxieties. The experience sort of put everything into perpective for me - made me realise that in general people are too busy worrying about other people judging them to actually judge me :)
I'm still an introvert who hates talking on the phone and has trouble keeping in touch with people, but I can now fake being an extrovert in social situations well enough that I can do well in my job where 90% of the work involves communicating with other people.
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I'm really glad you had that experience--that's great that it could be a catalyst for you! Thank you for sharing your story!
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What helped me, in case you are interested in such suggestions, was cognitive behavioral therapy. It didn't solve everything, but it certainly made a big difference. I know that can be totally out of reach because health care costs so damn much and everything, and WOW was it hard for me to pick up the phone to make the first appointment...but yeah. I'm not in therapy anymore because I can't afford it anymore, but I still feel better than I did before I started.
Online friends are so huge to me, because when I am typing I am not so nervous and awkward. It still happens! But it's so easy compared to real life. I also find - and it sounds like maybe you do too - that my connections online are deeper sometimes, because they do not involve so much small talk and scheduling and navigation...and so on. Getting right to the heart of things is nice. :)
Anyway, hang in there. I'm sorry you're going through this and that it's feeling so intense right now. *hugs if you want them*
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YES! One time when one of my professors was describing me to someone else, he said, "Oh, and she blushes a lot." Apparently, that's a big enough part of my interactions that it needed to be said! *headdesk*
That's really good to know about therapy! I might have to keep that in mind and see if it's possible. I hope you can get back into it if it helps you, but if you can't I'm glad it did work while you were going!
Online friends are so huge to me, because when I am typing I am not so nervous and awkward. It still happens! But it's so easy compared to real life. I also find - and it sounds like maybe you do too - that my connections online are deeper sometimes, because they do not involve so much small talk and scheduling and navigation...and so on. Getting right to the heart of things is nice. :)
Yes, this is just exactly how I feel! Thank you for sharing!
*hugs back*
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Anyway, I am not too unhappy with my existence as a single person who spends most of her time alone. Though I have started going to meetups through the meetup website so I get some social interaction with people who have similar interests. But despite my going for months now I haven't really made any "friends" from it. I guess I'm a little unapproachable? I don't know but anyway, hope you can ...uh..idk feel better?
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It's good to know I'm not alone! Thank you for your good wishes!
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And I'm going to add something more: there's a lot of people who don't just put up. I'll say that personally I love to talk to people, and when I'm having a conversation, it's natural for me to try and make it as comfortable and natural for the other as possible. I know I fail sometimes, and it isn't even voluntarily (I've been told that I should have chosen to work with the public bc of this lol), but that's apparently something so ingrained in my head (and there's a bunch of story about why that's there but I'm sure that's not of anyone's interest lol) that I always try without even noticing. And I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of people who feels the same and won't matter a few awkward moments, because there's much more to a person that those awkward moments you share during the first conversations. And, yeah, I've probably missed my point here, lol. Sorry. I tend to talk a lot and miss it.
Also:
(though I will say I have always thought that my teachers were much more impressed with me than they should have been; I always felt like I was fleecing them into thinking I'm actually smarter than I am. But that's a different post)
This, and the whole paragraph, IA. I feel so identified with it all. Actually, I was always The Clever One both in the family and the school and everywhere, and when people discovered I'd dropped out of uni they were oh so disappointed. And it was so surreal and unfair, because this was my life we were talking about and most of them haven't even been a part of it regularly, but apparently nobody thought that maybe I was having a hard time on my own, they all had to voice out that they were so disappointed because I was such a promising girl and then, bam. It made me feel so damn aware of other people and their expectations, I'm still dealing with learning to deal with that because up until then, I don't think I had really cared at all about what others thought D:
best wishes bb <3 hope you can overcome this!
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. And it was so surreal and unfair, because this was my life we were talking about and most of them haven't even been a part of it regularly, but apparently nobody thought that maybe I was having a hard time on my own, they all had to voice out that they were so disappointed because I was such a promising girl and then, bam. It made me feel so damn aware of other people and their expectations, I'm still dealing with learning to deal with that because up until then, I don't think I had really cared at all about what others thought D:
Oh, I hate this for you. So much. Because you had to do what was right for you and it must be hard to deal with all the judgment. BTW, this reminds me of one of the central storylines of the musical In the Heights. Are you familiar with it? If you aren't, you should see if you can get ahold of the soundtrack--it'll go over most of the plot points and it's SO GOOD and the character of Nina is going through almost exactly this! It's really awesome to see that in art!
Thank you so much for the good wishes! I appreciate them!
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Nearly EVERY TIME I interact with someone in front of my sister, she tells me afterwards "You shouldn't say such-and-such" or "You should act this way when you get asked whatever."
but I was cautioned never to tell anyone else that ever again.
These statements made me frown, though. In the case of the former because telling you how to speak and act seems very presumptuous and stress-inducing, even if it is coming from a place of love and concern. That's... not really your sister's place to instruct you how to behave, to be the arbiter of "normal" for you. And in the case of the second statement, I guess I don't find your sentiment odd? Especially in the context of a joke. I very much hope that the people closest to you in your outside-the-computer life are not fueling your insecurities because your quirks are different from theirs and therefore make them uncomfortable? I'd be edgy as all heck if I had the perception that my loved ones were watching me and judging the quality of my statements and actions. It'd make me nervous to speak at all, I think. So your quirkiness is different from theirs - so what? They should embrace your unique approach to people and life, and celebrate you. I don't mean to criticize your loved ones at all, it's just - that seems like overstepping boundaries a little bit. (/o\ I'm sorry if I'm overstepping mine by saying so)
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and it seems to me that sharing something this personal with all of us is a mark of your strength and resiliency. You have enough trust in other people to talk about it, and that makes such a difference
Once I know people, I have zero problem with sharing EVERYTHING. I'm an oversharer, really (not in a gross tmi sense, but in a "I will now tell you all the details of my struggles with depression! Yay!" kind of way. Thankfully the internet is willing to listen!).
That's... not really your sister's place to instruct you how to behave, to be the arbiter of "normal" for you.
You're right. I'm struggling to get her to understand this because I know she's coming from a good place, but a lot of times it's just too much for me to hear these things from her, especially because she socializes so easily, is always going out with people, has lots of friends, tons of attention from guys, etc. She really wants what's best for me, but she doesn't understand. I'm working on getting her to, because she's one of the most important people in my life and I love her so much.
As for the thing about them telling me not to talk about the prison thing--they were mostly joking back, like, "Lauren, you better not go around telling people things like that!" It was much more lighthearted than I made it sound (reading back through what I wrote, it sounds so much worse than it is!). There might have been a bit of real instruction in there, but just because they didn't want me to freak people out right off after I meet them, which makes sense. I was mostly okay with the exchange.
But I appreciate you watching out for me even via the internet! You're so wonderful! Thank you!