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your randomness of the day
Y'all, I have so many problems with Catholic theology and the institution of the Catholic church, but monks and nuns are consistently the best (like, seriously, if I was Catholic, I think I would make such a great nun).
Oh, My Hand: Complaints Medieval Monks Scribbled in the Margins of Illuminated Manuscripts
[You don't need to, really. A dull pencil is the worst.]
[which I choose to read as: APPRECIATE ME, DAMMIT. I PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO THIS.
[translation: forgive me my typos. Either that or it's sarcastic]
[Gross.]
[I feel you, bro.]
[I will be using that phrase ALL THE TIME.]
[Frankly, that sounds like poetry.]
And![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
upupa_epops, if you would like to talk about LM Montgomery in the comments, I would approve of that most heartily.
Oh, My Hand: Complaints Medieval Monks Scribbled in the Margins of Illuminated Manuscripts
New parchment, bad ink; I say nothing more.
[You don't need to, really. A dull pencil is the worst.]
I am very cold.
That's a hard page and a weary work to write it.
Let the reader's voice honor the writer's pen.
[which I choose to read as: APPRECIATE ME, DAMMIT. I PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO THIS.
This page has not been written very slowly.
[translation: forgive me my typos. Either that or it's sarcastic]
The parchment is hairy.
[Gross.]
The ink is thin.
Thank God, it will soon be dark.
Oh, my hand.
[I feel you, bro.]
Now I've written the whole thing: for Christ's sake, get me a drink.
St. Patrick of Armagh, deliver me from writing.
[I will be using that phrase ALL THE TIME.]
While I wrote I froze, and what I could not write by the beams of the sun I finished by candlelight.
[Frankly, that sounds like poetry.]
Writing is excessive drudgery. It crooks your back, it dims your sight, it twists your stomach and your sides.
As the harbor is welcome to the sailor, so is the last line to the scribe.
This is sad! O little book! A day will come in truth when someone over your page will say, ‘The hand that wrote it is no more.’
And
upupa_epops, if you would like to talk about LM Montgomery in the comments, I would approve of that most heartily.
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I don't know--there's a long tradition of saints doing a lot of questioning. I was reread Sor Juana Inez de la Cruz the other day--I'd forgotten how much I love her and the way she called people out on sexism.
Just out of curiosity, what is it that you don't like about Catholic theology?
I'm not comfortable with the idea that you have to belong to the specific RCC to be in Christ and the emphasis on works; I'm pretty firmly Protestant in my "grace alone" beliefs. I don't like the institution of the church, especially with the Pope having so much power? (Part of that is growing up in a denomination that has no central governing body but individual churches made their own decisions.) I don't think the apocrypha is part of the Bible, and I'm big on the priesthood of all believers. Plus other smaller things like not believing in purgatory and not praying to saints, things like that.
On the other hand, I am far closer to Catholicism in my views on human's fallen nature (corruption instead of depravity) than I am to the Reformed/Calvinist tradition. I'm pretty firmly Arminian.
Basically, you do that when you're translating books for children specifically -- to make the names easier to pronounce and to remember.
That makes more sense, sure. And that's so interesting about Pratchett's books!
so I automatically treated your rhetorical question as an actual question
I find it fascinating! Never apologize for sharing stuff like that!
AND HE COULD BARELY MOVE AFTER WAITING FOR JEM FOR FOUR YEARS, BUT HE RAN TO HIM ANYWAY...
I KNOOOOOOOOW.
It was Valancy!
he best romance ever, they fell in love because they became friends! Not to mention that he was a writer. Smart is sexy.
YES YES YES!
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Yeah, but I don't think this is how the lives of most nuns look today. My aunt is a nun, and from what I see talking to her, and to other nuns, living in a convent is pretty tough. Of course, there're different kinds of convent, but they all take the vow of obedience, and it's treated very seriously. Like, my aunt didn't get a permission to come for her own brother's wedding. From what I remember, her superiors once sent her abroad practically overnight (she got a week or two to prepare, and then she just moved abroad for a few years, no questions asked). Idk, I think that I'd be the worst nun ever, because I would never be able to obey like that.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the Catholic doctrine :). Surprisingly, I agree with most of them... Or, I guess, not so surprisingly; I've known for a long while that I'd make a much better Protestant than a Catholic ;).
I don't like the institution of the church, especially with the Pope having so much power?
Yep :(. Combine it with a pretty traditional, conservative culture, and you get a bunch of middle-aged, single guys who don't even cook their own food giving you ~advice about family and relationships. Our priests should have wives. Of course it's not going to happen in our lifetime, but it should happen now tbh.
(Also, according to some passages from the catechism that I've read a few days ago, the very fact that I'm having this conversation with you is a sin, because 1) I'm discussing the matters of the Church with someone who's against the Church; 2) I'm saying that the Church is doing something wrong. I do not understand how sharing thoughts and voicing concerns could be a sin. There's something wrong here.)
he best romance ever, they fell in love because they became friends! Not to mention that he was a writer. Smart is sexy.
YES YES YES!
I should actually do some TVD fic writing this weekend (deadlines, deadlines), so if The Blue Castle starts showing in my Damon/Elena, I will blame you! SHIPS BASED ON FRIENDSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Our priests should have wives. Of course it's not going to happen in our lifetime, but it should happen now tbh.
Yes, and I still don't understand that particular decision. Peter had a wife! I'm very glad that the reformers fixed that. I think getting married and having kids can help some clergy understand their laypeople a lot better. I've got a lot of respect for people who are celibate by choice, but I don't like it being forced on anyone who wants to join the clergy.
I do not understand how sharing thoughts and voicing concerns could be a sin. There's something wrong here
Yeah, that's confusing. I totally respect all the Catholics I know and unlike some more extreme Protestants I don't understand why people feel the need to talk like Catholics aren't Christian (that's just silly). But I also am firmly outside of it, so.
Some Protestants certainly have that way of thinking, even if it isn't official church doctrine. There are some people who hate questioning of any kind, while there are others who embrace it. It's amazing the diversity within Christianity. Sad that here in the States, at least, it's only ever portrayed in one way.
I should actually do some TVD fic writing this weekend (deadlines, deadlines), so if The Blue Castle starts showing in my Damon/Elena, I will blame you! SHIPS BASED ON FRIENDSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!
This delights me so!
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Yes, and I still don't understand that particular decision. Peter had a wife!
Peter had a wife before he met Jesus, and now widows and widowers are also allowed to take vows. More importantly, priests (and even bishops!) used to have wives before 5th century, and it didn't bother anyone. It became problematic in the Middle Ages, when the children of priests wanted to inherit church property. There're also some theological arguments for celibacy (St Paul, I think?), but, from what I know, it was mostly an economical decision. And now it's tradition...
I don't understand why people feel the need to talk like Catholics aren't Christian
Whoa, really? I live in a Catholic country (over 90% of citizens were baptized in the Catholic Church; of course some of them stopped believing in God when they grew up, but still, the only people I see around me are Catholics and atheists), so I've never experienced anything like that! Why would Catholics not be Christian?
This delights me so!
Yep, LMM is exactly what my TVD angst needs now ;).
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I didn't know that, but that makes sense.
It became problematic in the Middle Ages, when the children of priests wanted to inherit church property.
Interesting. Seems like there would have been better ways to avoid that, but I am glad to know where the thinking originated.
There're also some theological arguments for celibacy (St Paul, I think?), but, from what I know, it was mostly an economical decision.
Paul says that it's better not to marry unless you just can't help it, but he also says in that very scripture that that's his opinion.
Why would Catholics not be Christian?
There's some more conservative Protestants who find Catholicism as a sort of idolatry. Or they just think that Catholicism is so theologically wrong that it doesn't even count as Christianity. Which is just absurd, but there are a lot of absurd people in the world.
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Yes, but this is about Christians in general, and there were also some other passages specifically about priests. For example that a bishop should stop living with his wife when he becomes a bishop.
There's some more conservative Protestants who find Catholicism as a sort of idolatry. Or they just think that Catholicism is so theologically wrong that it doesn't even count as Christianity.
Ah, those. I see the arguments haven't changed since the 16th century ;). Well, to be fair, people who talk about idolatry sort of have a point. Things that sometimes happen when you combine worshiping Virgin Mary with folk culture strike ME as idolatry, and I was brought up Catholic, so I'm used to things like crowned pictures.
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I don't recall anything like that all--I don't think that's in there (I grew up evangelical, so I know most of the Bible back and forth--evangelicals know their Bible, let me tell you. The stories I could tell you about the ways we memorize it!). The rules for bishops/elders require being the husband of one wife (so no polygamy), but there's nothing about anyone leaving their spouse. Except Jesus talking about anyone who won't abandon their family for him being unworthy of him, but that's not connected to any kind of church leadership.
Things that sometimes happen when you combine worshiping Virgin Mary with folk culture strike ME as idolatry, and I was brought up Catholic, so I'm used to things like crowned pictures.
Sure. And that sort of thing is precisely one of the things that I disagree with as far as theology goes.
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And I didn't mean to be argumentative--totally wasn't my intention. Sorry if it came across that way!
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avoid being married off to people they didn't want to marry
be early lesbian separatists....
I still don't understand that particular decision.
I think it was at least in part to avoid the civic institution of the clergy becoming another aristocracy in an environment where people learned their trade from their families. If priests could have kids, then those kids would have been more like heirs.
I mean, it's long outdated - I'm not sure that nostalgia for that kind of political power isn't part of the way the higher-ups still cling to it - and it's certainly part of the damaging separate spheres ideology. But it does make some sense in a way that was slightly less counter-democratic than the environment in which the decision was made.
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Interesting. Makes sense, of course--there's diversity within every denomination.
I think it was at least in part to avoid the civic institution of the clergy becoming another aristocracy in an environment where people learned their trade from their families. If priests could have kids, then those kids would have been more like heirs.
That does make a sort of sense. Probably not the best solution to that problem, but I can see where the thinking comes from.