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Watch me be really passionate! About things that matter and things that don't! In that order!
- I'm embroiled in a rather vicious facebook conversation right now with a friend of mine. I mentioned that I was boycotting the Avatar: the Last Airbender movie because of race!fail, and he said he thought "the whole race thing" was blown out of proportion and went on to say a bunch of really privileged things that made me headdesk forever. I then sent him a looooong, ranty, link-filled message ripping apart each one of his points and generally being furious.
I shouldn't be surprised, though. This guy is such a Nice Guy (TM); he's actually the one I invented the phrase Bitter Beta Male Syndrome about. Most of the time when I'm having a conversation with him, I just want to yell, "CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, JACKASS!" Unfortunately, he's the only person in RL who's into all the shows I'm into, so we still talk. I might have to friend break-up with him, but I'm hoping not.
Oh, people. Why do you fail so hard?
- Apropos of nothing, I'm going to tell y'all the top ten reasons I think Buffy/Angel would never work! Aren't you excited? I know you are!
This is not well-constructed meta or even particularly insightful ramblings. It's just thoughts. And they're not overly thinky. Some of the phrasing/ideas may have actually been stolen from other people unknowingly (tell me! I'll credit!). Mostly, it's just me being self-indulgent.
Basically what it boils down to is that they're too much alike in all the wrong ways and not alike enough in all of the right ones.
1. The whole "I Will Remember You" thing. There are actually two things I hate about this episode: A) Angel's gotta protect Buffy (gag me with a spoon), and B) The memory-wipe. Yeah, my feelings on memory alteration are along the lines of![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
green_maia's: it's absolutely a violation of the most profound kind and there are very few things on earth worse. The fact that he does it in order to "protect" Buffy is just the most patronizing thing ever. It makes me gnash my teeth with anger.
(I'm much more willing to forgive Angel for something similar at the end of S4 of AtS, perhaps because I tend to cut people a little bit of slack when they're doing things for their children. It's still wrong, but I'd be willing to forgive him for it. I'm a hypocrite. With a great affection for Connor. Sue me.)
That episode is just the death-knell for these two, in my opinion. I could never get behind it after that, and I don't think we're meant to.
2. They both tend toward depression and taking themselves too seriously. Remember when they were together? Remember how they sat around angsting and proclaiming their love? Sure, that makes for good TV (I guess. Other people seem to like it, even if it bores me out of my mind). And it's very true to the feelings you experience with your first high school love (I guess. People say that. I never had one myself, and I don't feel like I was missing out on anything). But for an actual relationship? Where's the joy?
Angel and Buffy both need someone who won't take them seriously, who'll tease them out of a funk, who'll basically tell them they're being mopey and they should get over it. This is why Buffy and Spike work--Spike has that zest for life and that habit of seeing right through the others' crap and calling them on it. This is also why I think that Angel and Cordy could have worked, if they'd been written right, and why I even could see Angel and Faith together. But Angel's true love forever is Darla! DARLA DARLA DARLA!
And as a corollary to that....
3. "When you kiss me, I want to die" is not a healthy sentiment. Actually, it's pretty much exactly like something I'd expect Bella Swan to say. Or Edward. *gag*
4. They're both Alphas, and neither one of them is willing to ride shotgun. Buffy is the hero on her show. Angel is the hero on his show. (Even if I have loads of problems with the supposedly "heroic" decisions he makes.) The entire reason Angel left Buffy's show is because he couldn't be the hero unless he had his own.
They're both leaders. They call the shots. It's what they do. When Angel was still on BtVS they made this work by Angel basically on dropping in now and then to say cryptic things and then going off and doing his own thing.Brooding and gelling his hair, presumably. But if they came together again and really tried to make it work, it wouldn't.
Who calls the shots when there's two heroes in the room? If Buffy's judgment is telling her to do one thing and Angel's is telling him to do another, whose judgment do they trust? On the shows, the answer was easy: whoever's name is in the title. But in the real world? They'd end up clashing and probably resenting each other.
Let's face it: Angelis a self-righteous ass likes to make decisions for people. He does it all the time. He says, "It's for their own good!" or "It's the only way!" He's all about lesser of two evils. Whereas Buffy sees two evil options, decides neither one is good enough, and then creates a third option that lets her win the day. (One of the many, many things I love about her.) Plus, she makes her own decisions. She's a grownup now, not a love-struck school girl. A few weeks of Angel trying to decide what's best for her, and she'd kick him to the curb. Trust.
That's one of the things I've always loved about Spike: he is so totally willing to ride shotgun. He's got Buffy's back, and he's willing to be her lieutenant, and he's okay with that. Spike's a beta, but at least he's man enough to admit it. That makes him really great for Buffy: he's willing to be the mission's boyfriend. Of course, he loves the mission, too, post-soul, and I don't think it's healthy for him to entirely live for Buffy, nor would I want him to. But he's okay with being her right-hand man. And that makes them fit.
5. What would they talk about? Seriously! This one may be petty, but let's face it: Angel's a stick-in-the-mud. He likes Barry Manilow. Actually, I love that he likes Barry Manilow, as this affection provides many of my favorite moments on AtS. OMG ANGEL AND CONNOR SINGING TO JASMINE?????? GREATEST. THING. EVER!!!!
But I really just don't know what they actually have in common. Angel likes hockey? I think? Hockey and Barry Manilow. And what else? I don't even know. He just radiates this feeling of age to me (not that that's a bad thing, but it is when you're trying to be with Buffy), of out-of-touchness.
Spike, on the other hand, obviously loves to live in the moment. You know he watches copious amounts of bad television. I like to imagine him and Dawn watching America's Next Top Model and snarking along. He may protest, but you know he knows every single one of the names of the New Kids on the Block. (That was before my time, but who do y'all think Buffy had a crush on? Share!) Spike would watch badly-dubbed Korean movies with Buffy and snark right along. He's as dedicated to Dawn as Buffy is, and he has a relationship with her. I can so easily see him and Buffy arguing over what movie to go see or what to listen to on the radio, and Spike would keep up with her. Plus: banter banter banter! That's my favorite thing in a fictional relationship!
Question: has anybody ever written fic where Buffy takes Spike ice skating? Because I want to read about him being grumpy and muttering about how it's poncey. That would be EPIC.
6. They regress when they're around each other. Incidentally, Spike and Angel also regress when they're around each other, but in a delightfully snarky brothers-picking-at-each-other sort of way that makes me giggle forever. Buffy and Angel just do it in the bad way.
When Angel shows up on Buffy, he regresses to being Buffy's (ex)boyfriend. When Buffy shows up on AtS, she regresses to being a nagging (ex)girlfriend. This is not flattering for either of them, and I hate them both when they're on each others' shows (which is saying something, because we all know how I feel about Buffy).
7. They don't even know each other anymore. Others *coughscottallie* may argue, but I think it's pretty safe to say that Connor is the most important thing in Angel's life. And I think it's safe to say that Buffy went through the most dramatic changes of her life between seasons 5-7.
And they weren't in each others' lives during those times. They missed out on the huge, informative moments--Angel finding out about the Shanshu, being tempted by Darla during S2, gaining then losing Connor then watching the world fall apart, then selling his soul to take over an evil law firm; Buffy losing her mom, finding her sister, sacrificing her life, being resurrected, struggling with clinical depression, finding the will to live again, the AR with Spike, forgiving him, being so alone, sharing her power.
Buffy at the end of S7 is not Buffy at the end of S3. Angel at the end of AtS S5 is not who he was when he left Sunnydale. They're so, so different. I think a really talented writer could probably show them getting to know each other again, but I feel like they'd disappoint each other. Buffy isn't the innocent, full-of-life girl Angel was so captivated by: she's a war-hardened general. Angel isn't the shining knight she thought he was; he's a man who made a lot of moral compromises and whose best qualities are all wrapped up in his fatherhood. All of the things that them fall for each other in the first place have been broken and beaten over the years. If they met now, would they be so taken with each other? I suspect not.
I know they'll always be important to each other. Too important, honestly: I really think what she went through with Angel really messed Buffy up emotionally. But they aren't at the same place. And I doubt they ever will be again.
8. TWILIGHT IS EEEEEVIL!!!!!
9. Buffy and Spike have better sex. THEY DESTROYED A BUILDING. THE END. This one is for you,ohwahluvusbab!
10. Buffy loves Spike. Cookie dough: code word for brush-off.
Yeah, I got petty there at the end. Sue me.
And now I'm going to be quiet.
I shouldn't be surprised, though. This guy is such a Nice Guy (TM); he's actually the one I invented the phrase Bitter Beta Male Syndrome about. Most of the time when I'm having a conversation with him, I just want to yell, "CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE, JACKASS!" Unfortunately, he's the only person in RL who's into all the shows I'm into, so we still talk. I might have to friend break-up with him, but I'm hoping not.
Oh, people. Why do you fail so hard?
- Apropos of nothing, I'm going to tell y'all the top ten reasons I think Buffy/Angel would never work! Aren't you excited? I know you are!
This is not well-constructed meta or even particularly insightful ramblings. It's just thoughts. And they're not overly thinky. Some of the phrasing/ideas may have actually been stolen from other people unknowingly (tell me! I'll credit!). Mostly, it's just me being self-indulgent.
Basically what it boils down to is that they're too much alike in all the wrong ways and not alike enough in all of the right ones.
1. The whole "I Will Remember You" thing. There are actually two things I hate about this episode: A) Angel's gotta protect Buffy (gag me with a spoon), and B) The memory-wipe. Yeah, my feelings on memory alteration are along the lines of
green_maia's: it's absolutely a violation of the most profound kind and there are very few things on earth worse. The fact that he does it in order to "protect" Buffy is just the most patronizing thing ever. It makes me gnash my teeth with anger.(I'm much more willing to forgive Angel for something similar at the end of S4 of AtS, perhaps because I tend to cut people a little bit of slack when they're doing things for their children. It's still wrong, but I'd be willing to forgive him for it. I'm a hypocrite. With a great affection for Connor. Sue me.)
That episode is just the death-knell for these two, in my opinion. I could never get behind it after that, and I don't think we're meant to.
2. They both tend toward depression and taking themselves too seriously. Remember when they were together? Remember how they sat around angsting and proclaiming their love? Sure, that makes for good TV (I guess. Other people seem to like it, even if it bores me out of my mind). And it's very true to the feelings you experience with your first high school love (I guess. People say that. I never had one myself, and I don't feel like I was missing out on anything). But for an actual relationship? Where's the joy?
Angel and Buffy both need someone who won't take them seriously, who'll tease them out of a funk, who'll basically tell them they're being mopey and they should get over it. This is why Buffy and Spike work--Spike has that zest for life and that habit of seeing right through the others' crap and calling them on it. This is also why I think that Angel and Cordy could have worked, if they'd been written right, and why I even could see Angel and Faith together. But Angel's true love forever is Darla! DARLA DARLA DARLA!
And as a corollary to that....
3. "When you kiss me, I want to die" is not a healthy sentiment. Actually, it's pretty much exactly like something I'd expect Bella Swan to say. Or Edward. *gag*
4. They're both Alphas, and neither one of them is willing to ride shotgun. Buffy is the hero on her show. Angel is the hero on his show. (Even if I have loads of problems with the supposedly "heroic" decisions he makes.) The entire reason Angel left Buffy's show is because he couldn't be the hero unless he had his own.
They're both leaders. They call the shots. It's what they do. When Angel was still on BtVS they made this work by Angel basically on dropping in now and then to say cryptic things and then going off and doing his own thing.
Who calls the shots when there's two heroes in the room? If Buffy's judgment is telling her to do one thing and Angel's is telling him to do another, whose judgment do they trust? On the shows, the answer was easy: whoever's name is in the title. But in the real world? They'd end up clashing and probably resenting each other.
Let's face it: Angel
That's one of the things I've always loved about Spike: he is so totally willing to ride shotgun. He's got Buffy's back, and he's willing to be her lieutenant, and he's okay with that. Spike's a beta, but at least he's man enough to admit it. That makes him really great for Buffy: he's willing to be the mission's boyfriend. Of course, he loves the mission, too, post-soul, and I don't think it's healthy for him to entirely live for Buffy, nor would I want him to. But he's okay with being her right-hand man. And that makes them fit.
5. What would they talk about? Seriously! This one may be petty, but let's face it: Angel's a stick-in-the-mud. He likes Barry Manilow. Actually, I love that he likes Barry Manilow, as this affection provides many of my favorite moments on AtS. OMG ANGEL AND CONNOR SINGING TO JASMINE?????? GREATEST. THING. EVER!!!!
But I really just don't know what they actually have in common. Angel likes hockey? I think? Hockey and Barry Manilow. And what else? I don't even know. He just radiates this feeling of age to me (not that that's a bad thing, but it is when you're trying to be with Buffy), of out-of-touchness.
Spike, on the other hand, obviously loves to live in the moment. You know he watches copious amounts of bad television. I like to imagine him and Dawn watching America's Next Top Model and snarking along. He may protest, but you know he knows every single one of the names of the New Kids on the Block. (That was before my time, but who do y'all think Buffy had a crush on? Share!) Spike would watch badly-dubbed Korean movies with Buffy and snark right along. He's as dedicated to Dawn as Buffy is, and he has a relationship with her. I can so easily see him and Buffy arguing over what movie to go see or what to listen to on the radio, and Spike would keep up with her. Plus: banter banter banter! That's my favorite thing in a fictional relationship!
Question: has anybody ever written fic where Buffy takes Spike ice skating? Because I want to read about him being grumpy and muttering about how it's poncey. That would be EPIC.
6. They regress when they're around each other. Incidentally, Spike and Angel also regress when they're around each other, but in a delightfully snarky brothers-picking-at-each-other sort of way that makes me giggle forever. Buffy and Angel just do it in the bad way.
When Angel shows up on Buffy, he regresses to being Buffy's (ex)boyfriend. When Buffy shows up on AtS, she regresses to being a nagging (ex)girlfriend. This is not flattering for either of them, and I hate them both when they're on each others' shows (which is saying something, because we all know how I feel about Buffy).
7. They don't even know each other anymore. Others *coughscottallie* may argue, but I think it's pretty safe to say that Connor is the most important thing in Angel's life. And I think it's safe to say that Buffy went through the most dramatic changes of her life between seasons 5-7.
And they weren't in each others' lives during those times. They missed out on the huge, informative moments--Angel finding out about the Shanshu, being tempted by Darla during S2, gaining then losing Connor then watching the world fall apart, then selling his soul to take over an evil law firm; Buffy losing her mom, finding her sister, sacrificing her life, being resurrected, struggling with clinical depression, finding the will to live again, the AR with Spike, forgiving him, being so alone, sharing her power.
Buffy at the end of S7 is not Buffy at the end of S3. Angel at the end of AtS S5 is not who he was when he left Sunnydale. They're so, so different. I think a really talented writer could probably show them getting to know each other again, but I feel like they'd disappoint each other. Buffy isn't the innocent, full-of-life girl Angel was so captivated by: she's a war-hardened general. Angel isn't the shining knight she thought he was; he's a man who made a lot of moral compromises and whose best qualities are all wrapped up in his fatherhood. All of the things that them fall for each other in the first place have been broken and beaten over the years. If they met now, would they be so taken with each other? I suspect not.
I know they'll always be important to each other. Too important, honestly: I really think what she went through with Angel really messed Buffy up emotionally. But they aren't at the same place. And I doubt they ever will be again.
8. TWILIGHT IS EEEEEVIL!!!!!
9. Buffy and Spike have better sex. THEY DESTROYED A BUILDING. THE END. This one is for you,
ohwahluvusbab!10. Buffy loves Spike. Cookie dough: code word for brush-off.
Yeah, I got petty there at the end. Sue me.
And now I'm going to be quiet.