Annoyance of the day:

[lirazel]

People who flat-out say that Buffy didn't love Spike despite the fact that she said she did.

She said she did. The only reason we have to believe that she didn't is one thing Spike said, and since when do people believe anything that comes out of Spike's mouth? Boy can speak the truth that no one else will, but he also says a ton of b.s., and everyone knows it.

I just hatehatehatehatehatehate all of these people sitting around telling a woman (and it would be a woman--if a man said, it I think a lot less people would disagree with her) who finds it nearly impossible to say the words "I love you" even to people she regards as family (remember "Intervention"? That's canon) that she doesn't love someone when she said she did.

I don't have a problem with people quibbling over the nature of her love. You can argue that she didn't love him romantically or as much as she did Angel or whatever (I would disagree with the first one and re: the second, I would remind you that, as the_royal_anna says, we don't love in amounts. We love in ways). That's legit. But to say, flat-out, that she didn't love him even though she says she did takes agency away from Buffy in a way that I am entirely uncomfortable with and that DRIVES ME CRAZY, OKAY. If she had said she loved Riley (she didn't, did she?), I would be pissed at people saying she didn't love him, either. Uuuugh why does this annoy me so much?

Comments

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I think I see the divergence. I absolutely, whole-heartedly consider their relationship in S6 to be a relationship. A romantic relationship with fucked-up romance. She didn't want it to be that, but wishes aren't horses, baby. She breaks up with him, ergo he is an ex-romantic partner, IMO. (Why does everybody think I'm still in love with Spike?) I'm not really movable on that point. I suspect shipperx feels the same way.

any attempt at drawing parallels largely a futile affair.

I disagree. The breakup with Riley was also messy and ugly. Still, when he shows up, he doesn't have to do anything to prove his worth to her, even though he severely broke her trust. So it's only a matter of scale that is the difference. That and the people involved.

Do I think Buffy loved Riley "more" than Spike? I do not. I do think she was more willing to love Riley than Spike, but her heart overruled her head. Eventually.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

The breakup with Riley was also messy and ugly. Still, when he shows up, he doesn't have to do anything to prove his worth to her, even though he severely broke her trust.

But the relationship prior to the break-up had been overwhelmingly positive for Buffy, unlike her relationship with Spike in S6. That does affect how she greets them upon their return. In fact, it changes the entire tone of their continuing interactions as it cements the foundation upon which they're building.

However, given that we disagree on the apparently crucial factor of our respective assessments of the S6 affair, I don't think we'll reach any overall agreement.