Annoyance of the day:

[lirazel]

People who flat-out say that Buffy didn't love Spike despite the fact that she said she did.

She said she did. The only reason we have to believe that she didn't is one thing Spike said, and since when do people believe anything that comes out of Spike's mouth? Boy can speak the truth that no one else will, but he also says a ton of b.s., and everyone knows it.

I just hatehatehatehatehatehate all of these people sitting around telling a woman (and it would be a woman--if a man said, it I think a lot less people would disagree with her) who finds it nearly impossible to say the words "I love you" even to people she regards as family (remember "Intervention"? That's canon) that she doesn't love someone when she said she did.

I don't have a problem with people quibbling over the nature of her love. You can argue that she didn't love him romantically or as much as she did Angel or whatever (I would disagree with the first one and re: the second, I would remind you that, as the_royal_anna says, we don't love in amounts. We love in ways). That's legit. But to say, flat-out, that she didn't love him even though she says she did takes agency away from Buffy in a way that I am entirely uncomfortable with and that DRIVES ME CRAZY, OKAY. If she had said she loved Riley (she didn't, did she?), I would be pissed at people saying she didn't love him, either. Uuuugh why does this annoy me so much?

Comments

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Aha. Well, then, I believe her. I knew she didn't say it to him, but I couldn't remember if she said it to someone else.

[crazyumbrellas.livejournal.com]

Comment stalking but yeah, I mean in "The Yoko Factor" Riley did say "I love you so much I can't see straight" and Buffy did say "Tell me about it." so I guess there's that but she never said the words "I love you" to him?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you could read that as intentionally vague or just her being someone who has difficulty with the words. I mean, I do think she loved him. But I'd only get REALLY WORKED UP about it if she said it, you know? To him or someone else.

[miss-mishi.livejournal.com]

She says it to Angel in Sanctuary

Buffy: I have someone in my life now, that I love. It's not what you and I had, it's very new. You know what makes it new? I trust him, I know him.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

I adore Buffy/Riley but I have to say that (in my opinion), she said that in the heat of the moment and she only said it to hurt Angel.

[miss-mishi.livejournal.com]

I mean I don't believe Buffy loved Riley (or Angel or Spike tbh) but I was just saying if you're going with every time Buffy says she loves someone it's the god's honest truth, I figured I'd submit it as an example.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Ah.

But there's a difference; the difference is in the way she said it. That makes all the difference in the world.

[miss-mishi.livejournal.com]

I mean we can agree to disagree, I think Buffy's incapable of romantic love because she's incapable of seeing anyone as her equal because she's the slayer and that experience is so unique. Even after the season 7 finale when she makes all the potentials into slayers, they'll never understand the pressure she felt when she was the only one. I don't think that devalues any of her relationships, I just wouldn't say she was truly in love with any of them.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

For argument's sake, then all slayers are incapable of love, right? So Faith is incapable of loving anyone, too.

[miss-mishi.livejournal.com]

I don't think Faith's capable of love either, yeah. Actually I think Faith and Buffy would be capable of loving each other but things that are not canon. Faith's got a whole mess of other issues in addition to the slayer thing, though.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Oh! Wow, that's an opinion I've seldom seen expressed.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I always come back to this: Buffy is afraid she's incapable of love. That's her fear. That's a fear the narrative denies as true.

"You're full of love. It's brighter than the fire. Blinding. That's why you pull away from it. [...] Love. Give. Forgive. Love will bring you to your gift."

Buffy is "full of love". The narrative shoots down the idea that she's incapable of loving. The Slayer is love. Buffy's fear is not the truth.

I mean, it's like me fearing I'd be a horrible mom. That I'm incapable or something. That doesn't make it true, it means I'm afraid it might be true.

And honestly, people really don't do a good job psychoanalyzing themselves, especially not Buffy who's not much for self-reflection. Her fears do not spell reality.

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

Word to this, sister.

And can I just say how silly it is that we all trust Holden so much as some sort of voice of reason--that the things Buffy says in that conversation are somehow the Only Truth About Buffy Summers ever revealed?

He's trying to kill her, for one. And two--he's, like, a sophomore in college. WTF. So, he's taken 3 psych classes, and now the state of California is completely willing to license him to see patients in graveyards? That's just nonsense. He's a kid who got a good grade in psychology. It doesn't mean that his 10 minute conversation with Buffy tells us more about her than watching her develop for ourselves for 7 years does.

[miss-mishi.livejournal.com]

hahaha I'm forever alone in my fandom opinions, it's fine.

[boot-the-grime.livejournal.com]

She said it to Angel in "Sanctuary". "I have someone in my life that I love." AFAIK, some people only question it because she was angry at Angel at the time (because he took Faith's side) and they think she was trying to hurt him.