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Still so many questions!
So I did my freaking out about last night's finale of Dollhouse. Now's the time to be more practical.
Oh, yeah. There's spoilers.
1. I have decided that this is my ultimate fanwank: the vaccine to keep from being doll-ified also stops you from aging. What do we think?
2. How long had Harding and Co. had Topher? Was this a recent thing, him getting nabbed? Or had they had him a while? Are we talking years or what?
3. How did Tony and Priya end up back in the dollhouse post-The Hollow Men and pre-Epitaph One? I can see Adelle and Topher being there and Echo and Ballard, too. But wouldn't Tony and Priya have taken off?
4. An extension of that: how soon after the end of The Hollow Men did the big wipe take place? I know the flashforward at the end said, what, a year later?
5. My fanwank about Whiskey/Claire: they get Whiskey's body out, then try to put Claire back in. But not only is she deeply conflicted about who she really is, but she's also feeling betrayed by Boyd, so she asks to be taken out again so that she can be the messenger when everybody else leaves. Whiskey re-enters doll-state, and stays behind as the messenger, just as Claire asks.
6. I totally shipped Zone/Mag (I really like Zone, and Felicia's awesome as always)! And then Mag has a crush on Maurissa's character whose name I didn't catch! I'm gonna go with her being bi, as she never defines herself otherwise, so maybe one day she and Zone can have a thing.
7. Dominic is not dead. Which means he's been out there kicking ass and taking names, y/y? And sometimes dropping in at Safe Haven and having intense moments with Adelle?
8. I demand that somebody write a long, character-intensive fic exploring Alpha's journey to becoming as awesomely good as he was awesomely evil (OMG HIS AWESOMENESS DID NOT DIMINISH AT ALL). So...get on that.
9. Did it ever say how old T is? I know that Priya mentioned something about the last time Tony'd seen Safe Haven was three years before. But his gang could easily have stopped in seeking shelter or swinging in to protect the camp or something. We know that T doesn't know that Tony's his father, and it doesn't seem like Tony had been around him pretty much at all, so I'm guessing he took off shortly after T was born. Thoughts?
10. The whole scene in Epitaph One with Harding in Victor's body. When the hell was that supposed to take place? I have no idea.
I'm sure I have loads more questions, but I think this is a good place to start. Help me out, people!
Oh, yeah. There's spoilers.
1. I have decided that this is my ultimate fanwank: the vaccine to keep from being doll-ified also stops you from aging. What do we think?
2. How long had Harding and Co. had Topher? Was this a recent thing, him getting nabbed? Or had they had him a while? Are we talking years or what?
3. How did Tony and Priya end up back in the dollhouse post-The Hollow Men and pre-Epitaph One? I can see Adelle and Topher being there and Echo and Ballard, too. But wouldn't Tony and Priya have taken off?
4. An extension of that: how soon after the end of The Hollow Men did the big wipe take place? I know the flashforward at the end said, what, a year later?
5. My fanwank about Whiskey/Claire: they get Whiskey's body out, then try to put Claire back in. But not only is she deeply conflicted about who she really is, but she's also feeling betrayed by Boyd, so she asks to be taken out again so that she can be the messenger when everybody else leaves. Whiskey re-enters doll-state, and stays behind as the messenger, just as Claire asks.
6. I totally shipped Zone/Mag (I really like Zone, and Felicia's awesome as always)! And then Mag has a crush on Maurissa's character whose name I didn't catch! I'm gonna go with her being bi, as she never defines herself otherwise, so maybe one day she and Zone can have a thing.
7. Dominic is not dead. Which means he's been out there kicking ass and taking names, y/y? And sometimes dropping in at Safe Haven and having intense moments with Adelle?
8. I demand that somebody write a long, character-intensive fic exploring Alpha's journey to becoming as awesomely good as he was awesomely evil (OMG HIS AWESOMENESS DID NOT DIMINISH AT ALL). So...get on that.
9. Did it ever say how old T is? I know that Priya mentioned something about the last time Tony'd seen Safe Haven was three years before. But his gang could easily have stopped in seeking shelter or swinging in to protect the camp or something. We know that T doesn't know that Tony's his father, and it doesn't seem like Tony had been around him pretty much at all, so I'm guessing he took off shortly after T was born. Thoughts?
10. The whole scene in Epitaph One with Harding in Victor's body. When the hell was that supposed to take place? I have no idea.
I'm sure I have loads more questions, but I think this is a good place to start. Help me out, people!
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I can fanwank almost everything, but not the Victor!Harding. That's just flat-out contradiction. *sigh*
OH HEY. I am posting Priya/Tony fic. Shortly.
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that being said, the discrepancies between epitaph 1 and epitaph 2, before seeing E2, i thought would be explained away by "you can prevent the future; no fate but what you make" terminator shifting timeline shit that i love. but that didn't happen, so now i'm cranky.
rant rant rant rant. but!
FIC FIC FIC FIC FIC.
also re your number 1: lol YES so amusing i can't even handle it.
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and i don't like that they made me feel horrible for echo and i don't like that this show has so much talent and, i now see, so much potential, and they fucked it up and i can't even blame fox for it. but this finale would legit have been an awesome PILOT but it's not and that means i have to deal with dumb shit joss and eliza screwed up on. Yes. YESYESYES to all of this.
Uh, there's a scene in E1 where Harding's in Victor's body (or maybe it's Ambrose? The thing about the shellfish makes me think so), and he announces the whole bit about how the higher-ups at Rossum are going to live forever and Adelle better get on that. It doesn't fit the continuity at all, in my opinion.
Hee! I like it when you rant!
It's loooong fic, too! Like...9,000 words or something ridiculous like that.
I was highly, highly amused by the fact that they DIDN'T EVEN TRY. Hahaha!
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oh okay. there was a lot of random shit that doesn't fit. i don't like it, but i also get that joss was working with the very little time he had left. but then i realize it's joss' fault anyway because he didn't get his shit together. cycles.
NINE THOUSAND WORDS IS A WONDERFUL AMOUNT OF WORDS. ngl, despite the finale fail, i think a LOT of wonderful, wonderful fic of all sorts can come out of it. and tbqh, i want to read paul/echo, and i know that makes me a horrible, sick, twisted person (and i actually ship paul/mellie sfm despite that terrifying sex scene i literally cannot talk about and that joss just vomited all his feminism on, all stinky and acidic) but i want it. i have finale issues.
i just want him to go do something awesome now. something with teh feminisms. i'll watch it, i promise. just cast everyone in dollhouse but eliza and we'll be great.
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Yeah, he should have gotten everything together LONG AGO and then I'd be much more willing to forgive the continuity things.
YAY! I'm glad you think so!
I agree: there's tons of potential for fics. Honestly, a lot more than Firefly, and that fandom's still active, so I wonder if that means this one will be around for a while?
I think the right writer could sell Echo/Paul for me (and agreed about both the awesome and the terrifying and vomitous sex scene of Paul/Mellie) for me if they really played up the twistedness of it. I just felt like I was supposed to actually buy it when they hadn't taken the time to establish it yet.
i just want him to go do something awesome now. something with teh feminisms. i'll watch it, i promise. just cast everyone in dollhouse but eliza and we'll be great. I like it when you say what I'm thinking so I don't have to.
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the thing about the firefly fandom, however, is that that show was PERFECT and everyone loved it with good reason; this one will probably peter out and die after a while but i hope lots of good!fic comes out before that happens. fandom probably knew what to do with this show better than joss did because we're smart.
and YES re: echo/paul. there are few things i hate more than being presented a ship and being told i should ship them. SHOW IT TO ME. it's not hard. see: about twenty minutes into battlestar galactica i was already the shippiest fangirl in the world for my pilots and i will never ever EVER let them go. i'm a shipper, i don't need much convincing, but you need to SHOW IT TO ME, not just tell me about it. thanks. love, elyssa.
I like it when you say what I'm thinking so I don't have to.
:D
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fandom probably knew what to do with this show better than joss did because we're smart. YES.
i'm a shipper, i don't need much convincing, but you need to SHOW IT TO ME, not just tell me about it. thanks. I agree 100%. I'm always ready to ship things!
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"Haunted" from season one is the one that first explicitly explores the possibility of immortality garnered by body-hopping, so maybe it was supposed to be shortly after that?
Oh, Timeline Established By Adelle's Hair. If I did not hold such a hearty & impractical reverence for said hair, I would find you very ridiculous.
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Tell me about your thoughts re: Adelle's hair. I want to hear them!
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And then the season two promo pics came out, and it was gone. And in its place was -- not much hair at all! Where were my beloved perfect forties-style super-chic curls? What happened? A knife to my heart! A shadow in my soul! Like, Olivia is allowed to get a haircut and everything (Olivia ... could probably eat kittens without even killing them first and I would still support her 110%! It is serious, this love thing), but Adelle's hair! I genuinely spent like the first two episodes of the season feeling like she had committed this horrible betrayal against me. I didn't know how we'd ever make it out of this endless forest of betrayal & woe & strange newness & did I mention the loss of the miracle curls??
Then I remembered how she's Adelle DeWitt and, what the hell, she can do anything, and I will blindly follow her, mad with love. So we worked it out okay! And I clung to the few instances in which we got flashback hair. And then started giving the haircut actual Resonance & Importance In Terms Of Her Characterization, wherein in season one she was softer and a bit more feminine and idealistic and romantic, but then, GUESS WHAT! Her #1 workplace bff
and true true lovebetrays the hell out of her! This will not stand! Her heart is hardened! And so goes the hair, because she is going to look fierce and severe and pretty much like someone who, yes, can actually kill you with the amount of badassery contained in the lift of one of her perfect eyebrows. And just as she looks way more Wicked Queen Hardcore now, thus does her character arc go! Her life spirals into unparalleled suckitude and disorder and alcoholism! She responds by getting steadily scarier & icier! Somehow, somehow, Adelle Hair 2.0 complements this all perfectly.Maybe it was sort of like that scene in Buffy where Spike calls Buffy Goldilocks so she chops all her hair off. Maybe Dominic had a secret affinity for her hair that we never got to know about! Could any of us blame him?
The actual story is: Olivia had to get her hair cut for a movie she was in over the summer.
(... I can't believe I wrote actual paragraphs on that just now. That was an accident. Me and Adelle! It's just weird! Anyway. The fact that her hair had regained its former glory in the last episode made me happier than it rightly should have.)
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and having a mad love affair with Dominic whenever he stopped by, and her hair was long again! Yay!Maybe it was sort of like that scene in Buffy where Spike calls Buffy Goldilocks so she chops all her hair off. Maybe Dominic had a secret affinity for her hair that we never got to know about! Could any of us blame him? I have a Thing for Spike's Thing for Buffy's hair, so I would approve of this. Let's make it fanon.
The actual story is: Olivia had to get her hair cut for a movie she was in over the summer.
Hee! I like the Character Arc stuff better!
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1. My fanwank is lazy makeup artists who said "oh come one, most of them would only be in their 30's".
4. I actually thought the thing said "ten years later" so the timeline is likely malleable.
9. The casting call was for a six year old (didn't say who the character was, but most people guessed because there was no other reason to ask specifically for a child of mixed Caucasian and Asian ancestry ) so probably between five and seven.
10. My guess? Plot point dropped due to time. Like many. Too bad, good story there.
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Yeah, I like to think we would have gotten, you know, actual answers. But who knows?
1. Well, I actually thought it was less distracting them looking the way they always did than having bad makeup jobs. Though it wasn't until the last scene that I noticed the streak of grey in Echo's hair.
4. You're probably right about ten years later thing. But E1/2 both happen 10 years later. I need to rewatch that, I guess.
9. Great! Thank you! I was completely unspoiled in that, and very happy about it, too!
10. Meh. That sucks.
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And I was just telling
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I can't decide whether I ought to be ashamed of this or oddly proud. Maybe a nice mixture of the two!
I am deeply besotted with the idea of this fanfiction!!! I am still genuinely a little awed at how wide open the finale left things in terms of potential DeWitt/Dom adventures. It feels like post-apocalyptic Christmas! And I am still, needless to say, an ardent fan of the Shipper Goggles Rewatch. :D
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6. Maurissa played Kilo who, as Topher said, weighs one kilo!
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6. I remembered the Kilo comment, but I didn't know if she kept that name in E2. But now that I think about it, she most certainly would: Victor, Romeo, etc.
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7. YOU KNOW IT. I ship it, yes I do.
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7. WE ALL SHIP IT.
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I'm guessing, just because Caroline and Paul had a pretty simple plan to get him back, that Harding hadn't had Topher for years. Plus, Topher was crazy before, too, so the crazy-making would have taken more effect more quickly--but definitely long enough for him to get far less lucid, and to start working on a vaccine. At least a month, maybe a little longer?
3. How did Tony and Priya end up back in the dollhouse post-The Hollow Men and pre-Epitaph One? I can see Adelle and Topher being there and Echo and Ballard, too. But wouldn't Tony and Priya have taken off?
Well...they went back, though. So I think they made their choice to fight the fight (and Sierra was never going to leave Echo behind). Even if they didn't go straight back to the Dollhouse, though, it sounded (to someone who didn't pore over Epitaph One or discuss it much) as if the Dollhouse became an irony-is-wacky kind of safe haven from everything going on above ground.
7. Dominic is not dead. Which means he's been out there kicking ass and taking names, y/y? And sometimes dropping in at Safe Haven and having intense moments with Adelle?
There is no other possible explanation. Dominic is out there being a bitter resistance fighter
who kills carrots and strawberries anyway, but Adelle's laid down the law about when he checks back in.8. I demand that somebody write a long, character-intensive fic exploring Alpha's journey to becoming as awesomely good as he was awesomely evil (OMG HIS AWESOMENESS DID NOT DIMINISH AT ALL). So...get on that.
Lol, I read this and wandered off for a bit, and somehow Alpha => Adelle, so if I end up writing Adelle's pre-Dollhouse life/post-apocalypse transformation, I blame you. But thankfully, I can't write Alpha's kind of crazy/awesome, so I just have to sit back and appreciate it. (Also, as a side note, this fandom needs to get started on the Epic Fanfic thing now.)
9. Did it ever say how old T is? I know that Priya mentioned something about the last time Tony'd seen Safe Haven was three years before. But his gang could easily have stopped in seeking shelter or swinging in to protect the camp or something. We know that T doesn't know that Tony's his father, and it doesn't seem like Tony had been around him pretty much at all, so I'm guessing he took off shortly after T was born. Thoughts?
T looked about seven or so to me. Tony's probably been around a little--Priya was too hurt for the scabs not to have been picked over a couple of times over the years, and for her to keep seeing "proof" that Tony was pulled in by the tech. But, yeah, he must have officially left while T was still very young.
10. The whole scene in Epitaph One with Harding in Victor's body. When the hell was that supposed to take place? I have no idea.
A lot of Epitaph One seems retconned now, or at least in serious need of some PR fasttalk :P
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3. the Dollhouse became an irony-is-wacky kind of safe haven from everything going on above ground.
Agreed. And I kind of like the idea of them having left and then everything starts happening and they all end up back there together.
My question is: when did the calls get made? How long after "The Hollow Men"? A year? Longer? Less than that?
7. Dominic is out there being a bitter resistance fighter who kills carrots and strawberries anyway, but Adelle's laid down the law about when he checks back in.
I totally and completely agree.
Although I feel like I'm missing something with the carrots and strawberries line...8. I would love for you to write Adelle-fic! It would be epic, and I would gladly take the blame! I can't write Alpha, either, which stinks because he is awesome.
(Also, as a side note, this fandom needs to get started on the Epic Fanfic thing now.) I'm working on it already! But everyone seems to agree that we hope to get a lot of good!fic before the fandom dies out.
9. Tony's probably been around a little--Priya was too hurt for the scabs not to have been picked over a couple of times over the years, and for her to keep seeing "proof" that Tony was pulled in by the tech. That's my theory as well: that he and his gang would pop in now and again if they needed a place to recover or to team up on a few of Echo and Paul's missions, etc.
10. Yup. Although, I'm told that it's supposed to have taken place sometime during S1. Which is...kinda weird.
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*blush* I meant re: Adelle's agricultural efforts. He sort of took a long look at the garden, noted how Adelle attacked the weeds, and ran. It's possible my grandma's green thumb has made me geeky :P
8. I would love for you to write Adelle-fic! It would be epic, and I would gladly take the blame! I can't write Alpha, either, which stinks because he is awesome.
There must be someone out their who can write Alpha as schizophrenic and way-more-awesomely-evolved-than-Echo as he should be. As for Adelle!fic...*shifty*
Officially, I retired from fanfic.I've spent rather too much time thinking over Adelle's motives and possible background :PI'm working on it already! But everyone seems to agree that we hope to get a lot of good!fic before the fandom dies out.
Looking forward to it, then :D Dollhouse practically begs for solid, Epic, multi-chaptered fic (especially after that finale), so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
10. Yup. Although, I'm told that it's supposed to have taken place sometime during S1. Which is...kinda weird.
Huh. I really need to re-watch Epitaph One :P
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I think
Dude, this was the year I was going to dial back on fanfiction and focus on my original stuff, so I so understand. I HAVE FAILED. ALREADY.
Dollhouse practically begs for solid, Epic, multi-chaptered fic (especially after that finale), so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I agree. I'm thinking of doing like a series of one-shots of life between "The Hollow Men" and the Epitaphs. Because that way, I can really go a lot of places, but I won't feel bad if I abandon it (as I eventually probably will).
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6. I totally shipped Zone/Mag (I really like Zone, and Felicia's awesome as always)! And then Mag has a crush on Maurissa's character whose name I didn't catch! I'm gonna go with her being bi, as she never defines herself otherwise, so maybe one day she and Zone can have a thing.
Yessssss... This is what I choose to believe.
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I had this really sad pet theory that before the world spun out of control, they were actually on the brink of having something. It actually threw me when Zone asked who Mag was - it hadn't occurred to me that they hadn't met before.
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