lirazel | Fannish Friday: tropes/plotlines you can't be normal about

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Fannish Friday: tropes/plotlines you can't be normal about

This post is inspired by a conversation I was having the other day on Mastodon about how I can't just accept soulmate AUs as a fun fantasy thing like, idk, time travel or amnesia fic or something simply because it just reads as too Calvinist to me. I am Team Free Will! I am horrified at the idea of choices being made for me by the universe or God or whatever! I will read a soulmate AU if it's written by a writer I already love, but I am never going to seek it out, and it's always going to be a bit ew to me.

And that is so specific to me! If you have zero Calvinist background--if, say, your background is East Asian and you associate soulmate AUs with, like, red string of fate stuff instead of people being predestined to burn in hell for all eternity--you are going to have a very different reaction to soulmate AUs!

So that got me thinking about other tropes or plotlines that I just can't approach like a normal person because of my own personal baggage.

And here's the ultimate one: what happens to Donna on Doctor Who.

Donna was one of my favorite eras of the show--I found her completely delightful. But I have never been able to rewatch her season or even reblog gifsets on Tumblr because of how upset I was that the Doctor ended up wiping her memories in order to save her life.

Why? Because at that time my grandmother was dying of Alzheimer's. The idea of wiping someone else's memories, particularly without their consent, even if it was for "their own good" was so horrifying to me that it ruined Donna's run.

I think objectively that was a gross plotline, but I don't think most other people had the intense emotional reaction to it that I did.

But I will never be okay with memory alteration treated as okay. I just won't.

So what's a trope or storyline that you bring baggage to that completely shapes how you see it?

(Obviously the answer is: every trope or storyline because we all bring baggage to everything, but I'm talking specifically about ones that make you a bit of an outlier and that are easy for you to see: "Oh, yeah, that's definitely why I don't [or maybe do?] vibe with that particular story.")

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So I've been watching Homicide: Life on the Street for the past couple months, and there's this storyline in the fifth and sixth seasons where one of the characters has a breakdown, tries to kill himself, does not succeed, ends up murdering someone else, and just goes on a really awful downward spiral. And there's a lot going on with it, thematically (the show's overarching theme is the inherent moral injury of police work and how it psychologically erodes anyone engaged with it) but also: I watched this a couple weeks after I went through a serious episode of depression/suicidal ideation. And the episode where he tries to kill himself is, bar none, the best depiction of depression I've ever seen onscreen. Because the thing is, sometimes depression doesn't mean sitting around crying in sweatpants with unwashed hair; sometimes it makes you mean and horrible and angry and saying the worst things you can think of because you don't know how else to communicate the amount of pain you're in. Sometimes it means screaming at the people who try to help you because you're so far gone, you resent anyone even trying to suggest that it can get better. The body language, even - there's this bit where he's got his arms pulled up in front of his face like he's cocking his fists, and it took my breath away, because I recognize that pose. All of which is to say: yeah this character does some awful stuff, but I encountered his storyline at such a time as I simply cannot be normal about him.

(I'm fine now, I left the horrible job that was making me depressed before I did anything awful. Also my job does not require me to carry a gun, which is another point the show is making.)

Edited 2024-03-22 16:02 (UTC)

OOOF. Yeah. The more accurate something like that is, the harder it can be to watch if you relate to it. It makes so much sense that it was so hard for you. SO glad you're in a better place now!

the show's overarching theme is the inherent moral injury of police work and how it psychologically erodes anyone engaged with it

This makes me want to watch it! I've thought about it because of the cast and hearing it highly praised, but I never have watched it myself.

It really wasn't hard to watch - quite the opposite, actually, it made me feel better. So many depictions of depression just lean into the sadness aspect of it, but you rarely see ones that demonstrate how angry it can make you. I've watched it several times over now.

It's a really interesting slow, subtle burn - you could do things like that back in the day when TV shows had twenty episodes per season - because it doesn't come right out the gate with "POLICING IS EVIL AND ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS" but sort of plants seeds at various points and lets them grow until the audience is like "wait -" Stuff like how many cast members die violently, either by their own hand or someone else's, or how the characters who come in as idealists end up self-destructing hard when they come up against the reality of how little policing has to do with actual justice, or how the characters who the audience were introduced to as loveable will suddenly come out with a line like "they wanted a war, now they've got one" or "we used to own this city" and you go OH - this is endemic, and the writers know it. (And on a lighter note, Brooklyn 99 was absolutely riffing on Braugher's role here when they wrote Holt. And this show had the first bisexual main character on American tv, which I didn't know beforehand!)

Also the whole thing is online in a google drive! So that's nice, because it is not streaming anywhere legal.

Edited 2024-03-22 18:37 (UTC)

Oh good! I'm glad it worked for you!

you could do things like that back in the day when TV shows had twenty episodes per season

GOD DON'T REMIND ME.

Thank you for the link! I am sure I will check it out sometime!

the show's overarching theme is the inherent moral injury of police work and how it psychologically erodes anyone engaged with it

This is very well said and I need to rewatch HLOTS. It's been ages and ages.

It took me so much by surprise because I went in thinking it was a standard 90s police drama! (I grew up on Law&Order, which actually did a few crossover episodes with HLOTS, and tends to be . . . you know.) But it went in a really unexpected direction.

Edited 2024-03-22 20:29 (UTC)

My beloved father was a high school teacher for my entire childhood and well into my adulthood. I intellectually understand the appeal of the teacher/student trope in fiction, but it's a hard nope for me.

I've continued reading books where it happens, but it immediately sours me on the whole thing. It's not that I hate the older character for doing it (usually), it's that the author immediately loses my investment in the whole story, unless it's meant to be messed up and not something to root for. I've got a bunch of friends who read and loved Tamora Pierce's Wild Magic books at a formative age and are like "ah, Daine/Numair, everybody's exception to that!" and NOPE, as a teen I about threw the book across the room when it happened.

And again, I get why people enjoy it! But I simply cannot.

As someone with a teacher degree and tutoring students… Yeah, no. 😬

That makes so much sense!

I dislike soulmate AUs, too. I get why some people love them but I am never going to like a trope that takes away agency. I remember being very broken up about a storyline in thirtysomething where one of the main characters gets cancer, and that was before Kyle got cancer. In ER, one of the main characters died of brain cancer. I doubt I would be able to watch it now at all. Hurt/comfort storylines are distasteful to me. I was a nurse for 32 years and watched enough suffering for multiple lifetimes. I don't need to read fic about characters I love being injured or tortured or worse, especially in service of a ship. Rape is in that same category. No thanks.

Yes. I can understand why you'd want to steer clear of cancer storylines at all now.

Hurt/comfort storylines are distasteful to me. I was a nurse for 32 years and watched enough suffering for multiple lifetimes. I don't need to read fic about characters I love being injured or tortured or worse, especially in service of a ship.

Gosh, that makes so much sense.

Oh I'm very with you in the soulmate AU.

I can read soulmate AU if it's:
* A complete subversion of the trope where free will wins out
* It's soulmates in the zhiji C-Drama sort of sense, because that is not the same thing
* It's not actually a soulMATE but a soulBOND forged voluntarily (example: someone lets a psychic vampire feed off of them voluntarily so the vampire doesn't go for anyone else, but it comes with the price of a soulbond, which the fed on character knows and consents to), including subversion where the soulbond is a curse that needs to be overcome

But other than that, yeah I can't with soulbond AUs. I just. Yeah. No. sex pollen/aliens made them do it fall in the same category for me, basically everything where the free will of the character is tampered with. I am semi-ok with amnesia fic, but only if the amnesiac character is allowed to retain agency, which is a delicate line to tread, I know. (Which is why a lot of stucky fic just didn't work for me.)

I have a general thing about agency. I went through the Dana Scully school of character development I was always a big fan of the way she always struggled to retain her agency so matter what the plot threw at her. I also have some personal topics in this regard that I don't want to get into here, but needless to say character agency is a big thing for me. That doesn't mean a character can't be unconsciousness or sth, but just a general character topic.

Omegaverse just squicks me, idk why. Not sure this was what you were looking for, but I have a visceral reaction to it and I just can't. This is on the very short list that gets filtered out in every fandom.

Another that I just can't with (but that I suspect also plays into the agency topic) is woobiefication of a character. It drives me up the walls what some fandoms do with specific characters and I want to throw that whole tendency against a wall quite regularly. (In reality I close the fic and never look at it again.) I think it does a disservice to characterization. Yes, someone can he weak and at rock bottom and need taking care of, but that's the not same thing at all. Plus, some moral ambiguity is actually good, but what happens to fandom is...not that.

So yeah. My maaaajor issues right there.

Omegaverse squicks me a lot too, although not due to any personal baggage or experiences!

I suspect this one is at least in part the scientist in me wailing "it doesn't work like thaaaaat" which...idk why it picked that trope to make a fuss about but there it is.

Yeah, your exceptions work for me too!

I have a general thing about agency.

YEAH! Team Free Will!

Haha, those must make it difficult to pick through fic to find stuff you want to read! I feel you!

[Just a quick note — I can see this post twice in my feed, so you may want to check if you've accidentally posted two copies of it.]

I have similarly strong Do Not Want reactions to memory wipes, although not due to any particular personal experience. It's more just a visceral feeling of horror.

However, there are a couple of tropes to which I definitely bring my own baggage, and to which I always react extremely negatively:

Character A was abused, mistreated, neglected, or simply treated poorly in the past by an ex or a family member. (Normally Character A in this scenario is the female half of a m/f relationship, or the adult child of a parent — usually a father — who did something ranging from abuse to bad parenting to cause the adult child to be extranged from their parent.) The ex-partner or estranged family member shows back up in Character A's life, Character A reacts with hostility ... and all the other characters on the TV show/in the film start pressuring them to forgive their ex or family member, to stop being so bitter, to show forgiveness, for the sake of 'healing' and 'closure' etc etc. By the end of the film, or the TV episode, Character A has forgiven this person, and patched up the relationship.

Genius Male Character A (or Self-Sacrificing Revolutionary for the Cause Male Character A) mistreats or neglects his family or puts them in danger, but this is to be excused because his (police/political/military/crusading journalist) job is so important, or his cause is so important that the lives of his family are acceptable collateral damage, and they should live in orbit around him, devoting their lives to helping him fulfill his important goals that no one but him will be able to achieve. By the end of the show/film, his family members will come to understand this.

I hate both these tropes so, so much!

Character A was abused, mistreated, neglected, or simply treated poorly in the past by an ex or a family member. (Normally Character A in this scenario is the female half of a m/f relationship, or the adult child of a parent — usually a father — who did something ranging from abuse to bad parenting to cause the adult child to be extranged from their parent.) The ex-partner or estranged family member shows back up in Character A's life, Character A reacts with hostility ... and all the other characters on the TV show/in the film start pressuring them to forgive their ex or family member, to stop being so bitter, to show forgiveness, for the sake of 'healing' and 'closure' etc etc. By the end of the film, or the TV episode, Character A has forgiven this person, and patched up the relationship.

Oh good lord yes, this. Although I basically avoid storyline like that these days, because no. It doesn't make me react like other things do, but I simply don't go for this, also definitely due to personal baggage. I do not condone this sort of thing irl though, I've had at least one situation where I needed to sit someone (a colleague) down and tell them why making such comments or asking specific question might be a Really Bad Idea.

I avoid those kinds of storylines too, but they pop up from time to time in TV series without warning (case in point: it happened in a show I was watching — in around episode 7 of 10 — without any indication until that episode that this character's neglectful dad even existed).

I find that a lot of people in real life push 'forgiveness' and 'closure' because they find the situation in which a person doesn't want to forgive and feels messy emotions uncomfortable to deal with. It's more about their own comfort than concern for the individual.

Thanks for letting me know about the double post and posting again here--DW was doing something weird on Friday!

and all the other characters on the TV show/in the film start pressuring them to forgive their ex or family member, to stop being so bitter, to show forgiveness, for the sake of 'healing' and 'closure' etc etc.

THAT SUCKS. (This is why I love when Tara's dad and brother visit her on BtVS and instead of doing that, the rest of the Scoobies all tell them to get the hell out. Love it!)

Genius Male Character A (or Self-Sacrificing Revolutionary for the Cause Male Character A) mistreats or neglects his family or puts them in danger, but this is to be excused because his (police/political/military/crusading journalist) job is so important, or his cause is so important that the lives of his family are acceptable collateral damage, and they should live in orbit around him, devoting their lives to helping him fulfill his important goals that no one but him will be able to achieve. By the end of the show/film, his family members will come to understand this.

So, like, 90% of action movies! I really hate this too, though not for any personal reasons, just because feminist anger.

I’m a nurse so pretty much ALL versions health care professional/patient is mightily icky for me. Just. Fuck no.

ETA: Oh, and also alcoholism as a good/not that bad thing, being excused, other people telling to give the issue a rest. I spent 11 years with an alcoholic spouse so also, fuck no.

Edited 2024-03-22 20:19 (UTC)

Both of those make sense!

Mine is any form of stalking being depicted as romantic. There is a lot of discourse and varying opinions about this trope, but for me specifically, it pokes at some traumatic experiences that occurred early in my life and I'm never able to view the situation or characters objectively.

Medical dramas are also difficult for me to watch depending on how the doctors and medical professionals on the show treat the patients. If they are dismissive or judgemental, I get really turned off and can't really enjoy it. This is definitely due to my own medical trauma and something I developed over time. I loved House when it was currently airing, but I watched a few episodes a few years ago and was appalled at how they treated the patients. I somehow managed to forget how a recurring thing they do is break into the patients' homes to gather information about them. They're also generally really judgemental about personal things in the patients' lives, and after having medical professionals treat me the same way for being trans/queer and having psychiatric issues, I have no interest in watching it in media. Even if the media is depicting the doctors' actions as wrong and the story holds them accountable, I still don't want to see it.

but for me specifically, it pokes at some traumatic experiences that occurred early in my life and I'm never able to view the situation or characters objectively.

I get you. There are some fantasies that some people can enjoy but others absolutely can't because they know the reality too well.

Oh gosh, yes, medical trauma! That must affect so many things!!! I don't blame you for avoiding that sort of thing at all!

This was really interesting to think about! Some things that make me avoid a story are omegaverse, BDSM, and especially race kink or fetishisation of characters seen as "exotic".

especially race kink or fetishisation of characters seen as "exotic".

Ooof. Yeah.

There is a really great episode of Voyager—I don't know if you were ever into that show—that deals with a nonconsensual memory wipe "for their own good" and subverts it, recognizing that it was wrong and needed to be undone. When I first heard of that aspect of Donna's storyline (and I don't watch Doctor Who, so I only heard it out of context) my thought was "this sounds like Latent Image if the conclusion was that altering people's memories against their will is Fine, Actually" and I could only imagine how horrified I would be if that happened on a show I was watching.

I actually never did watch Voyager! I totally intend to at some point though!

that deals with a nonconsensual memory wipe "for their own good" and subverts it, recognizing that it was wrong and needed to be undone.

GOOD! I am glad to hear this so when I eventually watch it and get to the episode, I won't just quit watching!

I'm glad I mentioned it then! Voyager is a very uneven show but when it's on, it's really on.

This ties into broader themes of agency but is a very specific example: I can't stand when characters turn evil or turn into monsters (literal or figurative) through no or little fault of their own. The degree to which it squicks me depends on context (and gender, probably); sometimes I can get through it, but other times I nope right out. This was a decade ago, so I don't remember specifics, but my first memory of recognizing how much I hated this trope resulted from a fairy tale fantasy quartet I'd previously enjoyed; I put down the fourth one a little ways in and never finished it because one of the main characters got enchanted or possessed by a demon and became the villain, and it upset me too much. Other examples:

-The Dark Swan storyline in OUAT. I think I'd already stopped watching by that point, but hearing about it made me even less inclined to go back to it.

-Dean turning into a demon in the SPN S9 finale; I was already angry at the show for many reasons, but that was when I stopped watching (and I'd even predicted it would happen). Arguably, Dean was sort of at fault for what happened, so I might have come around to the storyline if the writers had actually held him accountable and if it had led to character growth, but in the end there were basically no consequences for that trash storyline, so I continue to hate it.

-I just finished a YA fairy tale trilogy in which the male love interest gets turned into a monster that the villainous witch controls like a puppet, and while it made me uncomfortable, I could get through it since I didn't super care about him in the first place.

I'm trying to think why Angel turning into Angelus in BtVS never squicked me in the same way. I'm sure it's partly because I can't stand Bangel in the first place, but I think it also has to do with how that plotline resulted from his specific curse and tied into the world-building; it wasn't something thrown in because the writers had no idea what else to do, and there were definitely consequences. Or hmm, maybe it's because he was Angelus to begin with, so it wasn't the same as an ~always-heroic~ character getting turned evil.

Oh, that's interesting! I can't think of any examples of this I've encountered, but I do not think I would like it either.

but I think it also has to do with how that plotline resulted from his specific curse and tied into the world-building; it wasn't something thrown in because the writers had no idea what else to do, and there were definitely consequences. Or hmm, maybe it's because he was Angelus to begin with, so it wasn't the same as an ~always-heroic~ character getting turned evil.

Yeah, it's really well done in BtVS, but I think in general that's hard to pull off.

Mark me down for being grossed out by teacher/student stuff as well! I get that college professors having flings with students is so common in fiction, fanfic AUs, etc., but it always gives me the ick so much. Nope! Cannot stomach! Shut it down!!!!!

Perfect icon use as usual, hon!

Why? Because at that time my grandmother was dying of Alzheimer's. The idea of wiping someone else's memories, particularly without their consent, even if it was for "their own good" was so horrifying to me that it ruined Donna's run.
Did you ever watch the Specials from last November? I'd say definitely watch The Star Beast. (You might then want to watch the other two.) It should help. <3

I have downloaded them but never actually watched them--maybe I will finally do it!

Do eeeet! Fourteen is one of my favourite Doctors and the three episode mini arc is wonderful. We had to wait SO LONG, but I am so happy with it.

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Fannish Friday: tropes/plotlines you can't be normal about

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