lirazel | (no subject)

Warning: these thoughts are very preliminary and more coming from a place of instinct than well-formed thought. I am happy for anyone to push back against anything I say provided you do it respectfully.

Hannah and I were talking yesterday (in a very un-nuanced way) about how weird it is that within fandom circles, there are fewer and fewer people willing to engage in commenting/meta-writing/actual fannish conversation (or hell, even reblogging of art on Tumblr), but more and more people who think nothing of paying for online stuff? I am shocked that this ko-fi thing has taken off--I guess I'm old school enough that the thought of monetizing fandom is horrifying to me.

I mean, I guess there's an entire cohort of people who never used the internet before Facebook introduced the like button and so don't know the joy of full-on fannish engagement. And those same people are accepting the commodification of...everything.

It's just really, really weird to see. I know there was a gap in culture between the pre-internet 'zine-and-conventions fans and then the very first fans who were using the internet before the world wide web and then again my generation who started using it in the late 90s and came up on message boards and mailing lists and such. But the gap between those earlier generation of fans (and by generation, I'm very much talking about "when you got involved in fandom," not what age you are) and the current one seems like a chasm. I just don't recognize how they do fandom, and I am actually pretty sad that none of them seem to want to do it the way we do it (only, you know, with greater diversity, etc. I'm not pretending like the internet in 2001 was perfect. It was much whiter and richer, and lots of things about accessibility have changed for the better since then).

I've just always really loved that fandom is a gift economy and that the gifts go both ways. That I write fic because I want to share it with y'all, and y'all respond and engage with it, and we all have a great time together. A "content"-based view of fandom where you just ~consume~ is just so repugnant to me and I don't want anything to do with it, and I know we're not going back to a livejournal kind of fannish experience, but I'm just...really not looking forward to further changes in fandom. I don't see good developments coming down the road, and I can't figure out if this is me being all Old Man Yells at Clouds or if I'm right and things just aren't as fun anymore.

And yes, this is partially about me getting fewer comments when I write fic for a huge fandom than when I write for a Yuletide-sized fandom, but also it's about a general feeling that people just don't view fandom (or even the whole internet) as a place of two-way interaction anymore.

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This is such a fascinating post! And really interesting conversations.

I also talked a bit about commercialisation of fandom before, and have a couple more drafts related to the topic. The whole "looking for community" vs "looking for an audience" is something I still struggle to adapt to as well. Returning to Dreamwidth is helping me, I think. Maybe the schism other people mention is something that's slowly happening, or needs to as different people look for different things in fandom.

AO3 is so large - I find many of my readers come from discord friends, posting on a couple of servers. I see people who say they never browse AO3 and will only read if the author promotes their fic on Twitter in the tags. I did it for a while but the platform stresses me out so I decided I was happy with the smaller readership.

But stepping back, I realised how much of the "influencer" culture is steeping in there. People encourage each other to be less shy about self-promoting, and create tweets promoting their stories, and retweeting their own announcements to reach people in different timezones. Even when they're not selling anything or have a ko-fi, etc! I see authors linking to the specific story tweet in the author notes as well so that it's easy for readers to jump to Twitter after finishing and retweet/promote the story to their own followers.

Which is all fine, you know! It's just... it feels like running a business, haha. These are fine strategies to use to increase your "audience" which is important when you need to convert X% into paying customers. People just copy these patterns because they're everywhere these days, with people trying to monetise their hobbies, sometimes out of necessity, sometimes because that's what everybody else seems to be doing.

I want the people who would enjoy my stories to find them, but I don't need to have the biggest audience ever, and a cosy fandom experience with a few people sharing similar tastes suits me better in general. My BNF friends seem to get a lot of draining interactions, with the additional attention.

Would it be okay if I linked to this post in my journal? I think it's very interesting and would like to share.

I'm glad you're here! :D

Returning to Dreamwidth is helping me, I think.

Gosh, yes. I drifted away for a few years, but I've now been back for three or four, and it's such a good thing in my life! Real conversation with interesting people! I love the shitposts and teasing on Tumblr, but I need this in my life!

I see people who say they never browse AO3 and will only read if the author promotes their fic on Twitter in the tags.

WHAT. Well, I'm screwed then, since I have never had and never will have a Twitter account!

Which is all fine, you know! It's just... it feels like running a business, haha.

YES! I don't want to do that! I am happy to create bookmarks and rec lists and tell all my friends about good fic I read, but I don't want to have to hunt down readers for my own fic!

People just copy these patterns because they're everywhere these days

I think you're correct about this.

and a cosy fandom experience with a few people sharing similar tastes suits me better in general.

Yup! I have found writing for smaller fandoms so rewarding the last few years! In stark contrast to writing for giant fandoms, where I feel like I get lost in the shuffle.

Absolutely--link away! Anything that's publicly posted is fine to link to.

I am, clearly, also really enjoying the real conversations that it's possible to have on Dreamwidth :D

WHAT. Well, I'm screwed then, since I have never had and never will have a Twitter account!

I made my peace with not reaching that subset of readers as well, haha. The comment stuck with me. In the end, I think this is related to how people find community: they want to be able to talk to the authors directly, and some don't have AO3 accounts or find AO3 comments too intimidating. And AO3 comments rarely lead to new friendships (they do, sometimes!! I made a couple of friends that way :D) while becoming "mutuals" on Twitter is easier and more likely to happen, and it feels lower pressure.

I don't mind promoting my fics (as in, mentioning I wrote a thing) in the communities and servers I'm active in and where it's relevant, but I definitely don't want to develop a full marketing strategy around it... That's not for me. Celebrating that people I know Made A Thing is nice, though :D

or find AO3 comments too intimidating.

I will never understand this. I get that some people have social anxiety general, and any and all commenting is difficult for them, but finding AO3 specifically more intimidating than other sites? I don't get it!

I don't mind promoting my fics (as in, mentioning I wrote a thing) in the communities and servers I'm active in and where it's relevant, but I definitely don't want to develop a full marketing strategy around it... That's not for me. Celebrating that people I know Made A Thing is nice, though :D

Exactly!

I think perhaps it's the size of the textbox and the lack of limits. I super briefly touched on it in the context of Dreamwidth after hearing from several friends who find posting here too intimidating (like a big textbox requires big thoughts), compared to Twitter which encourages you to post short thoughts, or even Discord showing you how to type just one line by default. That means that just saying "I enjoyed this" or a sentence or two feels like it's not enough in the context of an AO3 comment box and you should say "more" which is effort which you might do later which whoops closed the tab XD I think people find it easier to "react" to a story on Twitter and like "just gushing" is more appropriate in that context rather than on AO3 itself (they're wrong, but from reading between the lines and looking at the culture, that's my understanding/feeling.)

Incidentally, that's the same kind of thinking I heard from some AO3 authors I used to enjoy who moved to posting fic exclusively on Twitter. In addition to the ability to "like" specific sentences, they say it feels like less pressure posting there, the work doesn't need to be as polished -- even though AO3 has no such requirements either, and their fics are excellent either way, I guess AO3 gives off this serious impression.

Wow. The idea of a textbox having any effect is mindblowing to me and yet now that you mention it...I still don't think it would have an effect on me, but, well, the medium is the message, so I can see how it would have subliminal effects ons ome people. Wow.

In addition to the ability to "like" specific sentences, they say it feels like less pressure posting there, the work doesn't need to be as polished -- even though AO3 has no such requirements either, and their fics are excellent either way, I guess AO3 gives off this serious impression.

WILD.