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some Kinnporsche thoughts
Let's make a couple of things very clear:
1. This show is a mess. Not visually--it's stunningly shot and the director and cinematographer both deserve awards. But plot-wise and priorities-wise and pacing-wise and just so many other things. A MESS. (a mess.)
2. It's that specific kind of sexist that we are all familiar with from slash fanfic where all the dudes are gay (ALL the dudes) and there are no women except for one token woman to cheer along our ship (who only shows up a handful of times) and one more who exists only to be a pawn (and only shows up in like the last thirty minutes of the whole show). I've really never seen a show so egregiously uninterested in women. It's appalling.
3. The main ship is made up of two very, very pretty himbos who are very, very cute together.
4. The secondary ship? Is top tier. WOW. Like, a little too rushed for me as an ace person, but their dynamic is amazing, their scenes are incredible, and I will read a million fics.
5. The other secondary ship is so boring I can't believe I sat through all their scenes OMG it was the worst.
6. Yes, all three ships are m/m. THERE ARE NO WOMEN.
7. The pacing is some of the worst I've ever seen. Soooo much time is spent on pointless stuff and the actually plotty or character-building stuff just doesn't get enough focus. What's there of character-building is good, actually. I like our leads! I super like our secondary ship and also the traumatized big brother! But there was so much wasted potential that could have been explored deeply.
8. This show is allegedly "about" mafia families. This show is not about mafia families. It is completely and totally uninterested in how organized crime actually works or what it involves. I'm not saying it needs to address that stuff in anything like a realistic way. Of course it doesn't. But you can embrace the pulpy stuff and not just the aesthetic! Come on! The mafia place setting is only there to make sure that one of our leads is fabulously wealthy and needs a bodyguard. That's it. I have seriously read 10k word fanfic mafia AUs that care more about organized crime.
9. My main conclusion is that this show is only worth watching (for me personally) because of Tankhun, Vegas, and VegasPete. I'm glad I watched it for them, but even though KinnPorsche are cute and funny, I wouldn't have waded through the whole show for them.
10. I recommend this show to you if any of the following are true about you:
a. You really like softcore porn between two very pretty himbos alternating with them being absolute goobers
b. You are into the kind of ship that involves lots of blood and crying and pointing guns at each otherand chains and you are willing to watch like 10 episodes before they even start interacting.
c. You like the kind of slashfic described above where women might as well not even exist.
I only check one out of three, but whatever. I really am looking forward to all the VegasPete fics.
The ending makes NO SENSE character-wise I'm so annoyed! Has Porsche ever shown the slightest inclination to be a mafia boss? NO HE HAS NOT. So why is this a happy ending for him???
It should have ended with Vegas and Kinn both killing their evil dads and then taking their boyfriends, their little brothers (minus Kim because we can all do without him), and Tankhun and running away to run a bar on a beach somewhere.
And please can we forget KimChay forever. It is completely unconvincing to me as a romantic relationship. I can believe that Kim's ego is getting stroked by this kid worshiping him, and I can even believe that he thinks Chay is cute and wants to protect him. But nothing about him having romantic feelings for Chay makes the slightest bit of sense.
Also the show did not lean into Kim being a total psychopath enough. He is only interesting when he's being a stone-cold maniac--the rest of the time he has no personality and I want him to go away.
The stuff with the mom pissed me off so much. She's a pawn, nothing more. She's kept in a literal attic. She exists for the men to have feelings about. And she conveniently has brain damage so she can still be beautiful (and apparently paint amazingly well?) but not actually have any agency or even reactions that might, you know, matter. It's honestly more gross than if she wasn't there at all. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS ENDING???
Also, Kinn's dad is clearly every bit as evil as Vegas's dad, only he's way more manipulative and emotionally self-controlled. AND HE GETS AWAY WITH IT. UGH I HATE HIM. He's not punished at all in any way! What is the point of a fantastical show like this if the bad guy doesn't even get his comeuppance????
Kinn and Porsche are pretty and cute and funny and their scenes were amusing and I like to think of these two well-dressed himbos being in love forever.
Tankhun is my hero and I would watch a spinoff about him watching kdramas poorly. I did not know it was possible to watch kdramas poorly, but it is.
This show does not deserve Vegas and all the work Bible was doing making him so compelling. Goodness gracious. Part of me wishes he'd had the catharsis of killing his dad himself, but you know what? When he dropped to his knees and after the longest silence just said, "Papa?" I lost my mind. That was so good.
I do feel like he and Pete did move too fast. Y'all know this is my complaint about 90% of ships. They had one torture scene and one sex scene together and now they love each other? But their interactions are SO GOOD I'm willing to overlook it and I am hoping I'll find at least one or two really convincing slowburn fanfics about them.
I wish we'd gotten more into Pete's motivations. Vegas is walking case of Daddy Issues, but though the one recalled memory about Pete's dad was so good, I really feel like they could have done more with him and his inferiority.
[I'm going to come back here later and put all my liveblogs in this post]
In conclusion: come at me with some VegasPete fic recs.
1. This show is a mess. Not visually--it's stunningly shot and the director and cinematographer both deserve awards. But plot-wise and priorities-wise and pacing-wise and just so many other things. A MESS. (a mess.)
2. It's that specific kind of sexist that we are all familiar with from slash fanfic where all the dudes are gay (ALL the dudes) and there are no women except for one token woman to cheer along our ship (who only shows up a handful of times) and one more who exists only to be a pawn (and only shows up in like the last thirty minutes of the whole show). I've really never seen a show so egregiously uninterested in women. It's appalling.
3. The main ship is made up of two very, very pretty himbos who are very, very cute together.
4. The secondary ship? Is top tier. WOW. Like, a little too rushed for me as an ace person, but their dynamic is amazing, their scenes are incredible, and I will read a million fics.
5. The other secondary ship is so boring I can't believe I sat through all their scenes OMG it was the worst.
6. Yes, all three ships are m/m. THERE ARE NO WOMEN.
7. The pacing is some of the worst I've ever seen. Soooo much time is spent on pointless stuff and the actually plotty or character-building stuff just doesn't get enough focus. What's there of character-building is good, actually. I like our leads! I super like our secondary ship and also the traumatized big brother! But there was so much wasted potential that could have been explored deeply.
8. This show is allegedly "about" mafia families. This show is not about mafia families. It is completely and totally uninterested in how organized crime actually works or what it involves. I'm not saying it needs to address that stuff in anything like a realistic way. Of course it doesn't. But you can embrace the pulpy stuff and not just the aesthetic! Come on! The mafia place setting is only there to make sure that one of our leads is fabulously wealthy and needs a bodyguard. That's it. I have seriously read 10k word fanfic mafia AUs that care more about organized crime.
9. My main conclusion is that this show is only worth watching (for me personally) because of Tankhun, Vegas, and VegasPete. I'm glad I watched it for them, but even though KinnPorsche are cute and funny, I wouldn't have waded through the whole show for them.
10. I recommend this show to you if any of the following are true about you:
a. You really like softcore porn between two very pretty himbos alternating with them being absolute goobers
b. You are into the kind of ship that involves lots of blood and crying and pointing guns at each other
c. You like the kind of slashfic described above where women might as well not even exist.
I only check one out of three, but whatever. I really am looking forward to all the VegasPete fics.
The ending makes NO SENSE character-wise I'm so annoyed! Has Porsche ever shown the slightest inclination to be a mafia boss? NO HE HAS NOT. So why is this a happy ending for him???
It should have ended with Vegas and Kinn both killing their evil dads and then taking their boyfriends, their little brothers (minus Kim because we can all do without him), and Tankhun and running away to run a bar on a beach somewhere.
And please can we forget KimChay forever. It is completely unconvincing to me as a romantic relationship. I can believe that Kim's ego is getting stroked by this kid worshiping him, and I can even believe that he thinks Chay is cute and wants to protect him. But nothing about him having romantic feelings for Chay makes the slightest bit of sense.
Also the show did not lean into Kim being a total psychopath enough. He is only interesting when he's being a stone-cold maniac--the rest of the time he has no personality and I want him to go away.
The stuff with the mom pissed me off so much. She's a pawn, nothing more. She's kept in a literal attic. She exists for the men to have feelings about. And she conveniently has brain damage so she can still be beautiful (and apparently paint amazingly well?) but not actually have any agency or even reactions that might, you know, matter. It's honestly more gross than if she wasn't there at all. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS ENDING???
Also, Kinn's dad is clearly every bit as evil as Vegas's dad, only he's way more manipulative and emotionally self-controlled. AND HE GETS AWAY WITH IT. UGH I HATE HIM. He's not punished at all in any way! What is the point of a fantastical show like this if the bad guy doesn't even get his comeuppance????
Kinn and Porsche are pretty and cute and funny and their scenes were amusing and I like to think of these two well-dressed himbos being in love forever.
Tankhun is my hero and I would watch a spinoff about him watching kdramas poorly. I did not know it was possible to watch kdramas poorly, but it is.
This show does not deserve Vegas and all the work Bible was doing making him so compelling. Goodness gracious. Part of me wishes he'd had the catharsis of killing his dad himself, but you know what? When he dropped to his knees and after the longest silence just said, "Papa?" I lost my mind. That was so good.
I do feel like he and Pete did move too fast. Y'all know this is my complaint about 90% of ships. They had one torture scene and one sex scene together and now they love each other? But their interactions are SO GOOD I'm willing to overlook it and I am hoping I'll find at least one or two really convincing slowburn fanfics about them.
I wish we'd gotten more into Pete's motivations. Vegas is walking case of Daddy Issues, but though the one recalled memory about Pete's dad was so good, I really feel like they could have done more with him and his inferiority.
[I'm going to come back here later and put all my liveblogs in this post]
In conclusion: come at me with some VegasPete fic recs.
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(edited, I can't leave comments alone tonight: at this point I am much more interested in the mechanics that made KinnPorsche happen and the particular entertainment industry which spawned it / to which it was a reaction, than the show itself.)
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Don't feel bad! You can not watch KP and she can not stan Ninety One and it's all okay!
at this point I am much more interested in the mechanics that made KinnPorsche happen and the particular entertainment industry which spawned it / to which it was a reaction, than the show itself
This is a completely reasonable reaction and I am fascinated as well.
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This is very true and wise (and I quoted it to Jamie yesterday).
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Re, mess & misogyny: 100%. I regularly despair that the quality of Thai shows is so low that KP seems like a masterpiece in comparison, and yet, somehow, they still compel me.
Re, endings:
More than anything I think that Porsche's ending is in fact more manipulation by Korn. It's happy in that Porsche has what he wants, ie his family & Kinn, but he's gained it in a way I think has trapped him, and by giving the minor family to Porsche, Korn has benefited fourfold:
1) Porsche is staying under his thumb and not running off to a beach bar with Chay and Nampheung.
(Side note but I absolutely believe there is more to her than meets the eye. Now that Gun is dead and Nampheung is """brain damaged""" there's no one to contradict Korn's version of the events that led to Porsche & Chay's father dying. Her whole thing is probably nothing like what I want, that she's simply playing the part and biding her time for revenge, but there's something there, I swear.)
2) Because Porsche is staying, Kinn is definitely staying. Kinn is shown, especially at the beginning, to chafe at pressures and expectations of the life, and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he would grow more rebellious to Korn over time via Porsche's influence. With Porsche also entrenched, that's tempered. Kinn is by far the easiest for Korn to manipulate of the brothers, and he's ensured that Kinn remains in the position of heir.
3) Porsche has no idea how to run a business like the minor family, meaning that it's going to be Kinn running it, meaning that there's no meaningful distinction between the families anymore and that both of them are under Korn's control.
And 4) there's no chance of a coup from Vegas. An outside attack? If Vegas could gather enough men and guns, sure. But no more cold war spy games that result in people being beheaded.
Everything is consolidated very nicely from his point of view, and it feels very much the same slightly threatening vibe of how he said, "From now on, I'll be looking after you and your brother," to Vegas after Gun's death.
For a potential S2 I'm desperate for them to somehow wrest creative control from the original authors (who we hate) and use all of this as groundwork for setting up some kind of conflict based on agency and autonomy. It's a massive kind of looming shadow over every character in a different way, and I think it would tie in really well with a lot of what's already been established. (So far, their continuation consists of Vegas raping Pete, leaving him in an abandoned warehouse, and Vegas and Porshe running away together Again. I do not acknowledge the novels.)
Also I want Tankhun to adopt Chay.
Re: Vegas, YES. I honestly do not believe that Vegas would be half the character that he is without Bible playing him, and it blows my mind that this is Bible's first role. The casting director literally just?? Found him on the street and encouraged him to audition??? Because he "looked mean"???? And out of that we got a guy who can act like That, is bilingual to the extent of being the official translator for the novel, is a cat dad, can kickbox, can pole dance, can play guitar, is an engineering major that tutors the others in physics for fun, and also has enough charisma to make me forget that he's 5'8". There are sooooo many different types of people in the world and somehow Bible is all of them at the same time.
(I do not have any fic recs yet, there's a tragic lack of slow burn in this fandom, but I do have a big-ass collection of meta if that interests you at all.)
Did you stick around for the end of the credits?
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More than anything I think that Porsche's ending is in fact more manipulation by Korn. It's happy in that Porsche has what he wants, ie his family & Kinn, but he's gained it in a way I think has trapped him, and by giving the minor family to Porsche, Korn has benefited fourfold:
You are dead on. This is a happy ending for Korn. I don't believe it's really happy for anyone else. I find it almost dystopic.
For a potential S2 I'm desperate for them to somehow wrest creative control from the original authors (who we hate) and use all of this as groundwork for setting up some kind of conflict based on agency and autonomy.
YESSSSSSS. There's huge potential there! I hold little hope it will be met, but gosh, the things you could do with it!
Also I want Tankhun to adopt Chay.
Agreed!
There are sooooo many different types of people in the world and somehow Bible is all of them at the same time.
Lol I know I'm mildly obsessed with him now?
Thank you for meta links!!!
I did! I probably would not have if I hadn't been spoiled by gifsets and known that there was a scene I hadn't seen yet. I was like, "But what about the scene with VegasPete in the hospital room????" I was kinda panicking until it showed up!
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MINDBLOWING. He is really SO good and has SO much charisma that it almost makes me mad that it's his first role!
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thank you so much for that beautifully organized meta
Happy to share! I've noticed that this fandom seems to skew older, and I think it shows in that we have a lot of people willing to put in the, frankly incredible, work to collect things like this. I've lost many an evening to it myself lol.
this is Bible's first role?!?!?!@##$#J&*&#!!!??
I KNOW RIGHT?? Idk how familiar you are with Thai shows but it's incredibly common for the actors to not have any formal training, the exceptions to that (ie Gun Atthaphan and Nanon Korapat) being so notable that everyone knows about it, and so you usually have passable acting that's backed up by the boys being pretty. Bible mentioned once or twice how because he's not a typical pretty boy, he's not 6 foot tall and he struggles with Thai sometimes because he was raised speaking English, he's had rejections from auditions in the past, and it just??? completely baffles me????? Can you even imagine turning away a guy who can act like That with no training or past experience? Every time I think of it, I have to, like, go lay down for an hour and just be thankful for the events that led to that casting director seeing him on the street.
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I think the fans came for KinnPorsche ship and stayed for VegasPete because OMG that ship has everything slash fans love! XD Totally fascinating and interesting!
Bible gave it his all and he brings Vegas to life, it's amazing! Also, those chemistry workshops sure payed off! XD
I think BL fans are also simply glad that it's not another high school / college setting but instead the vague *handwaves* mafia thing, with actual grown up men. XD Because it really seems to be different from the norm, like a breath of fresh air. And tbh we also all don't know how mafia works. XD But yeah, no-one should watch it if they expect a realistic portrayal of mafia stuff.
KimChay - I haven't heard much about them (no surprise there) but I could imagine that it's due to the actor of Porchay being underage (either 16 or 17 at time of filming) while Jeff Satur is ten years older. Satur was also super protective of the kid on set (because the writers are... questionable at best) and I could imagine that he was not comfortable at all with doing anything but the most lowkey romantic scenes with a teenager.
I've read some meta about the overall ending which explained it a bit. Like, on the surface they sell it as happy, when it's mainly happy for Kinn's father, but that Porsche basically plays along for now because it gives him what he wants. For him, it's a compromise. There is supposed to be a season 2 so I'd guess that Kinn's father would get his comeuppance there. Hopefully. :/ There seems to be a lot of potential.
I need a VegasPete icon too but I don't have time to make some. T_T
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I think the fans came for KinnPorsche ship and stayed for VegasPete because OMG that ship has everything slash fans love! XD Totally fascinating and interesting!
Absolutely!
I think BL fans are also simply glad that it's not another high school / college setting but instead the vague *handwaves* mafia thing, with actual grown up men.
Ah, that makes sense. I haven't watched other Thai BL dramas, but now that you mention it, all the gifsets I've seen do seem to be in school settings.
but I could imagine that it's due to the actor of Porchay being underage (either 16 or 17 at time of filming) while Jeff Satur is ten years older. Satur was also super protective of the kid on set (because the writers are... questionable at best) and I could imagine that he was not comfortable at all with doing anything but the most lowkey romantic scenes with a teenager.
Good for Jeff Satur!
I hear that a season 2 is becoming more and more unlikely, which is a real shame, because they set it up great.
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Well, I'm planning to watch it! XD
all the gifsets I've seen do seem to be in school settings.
I haven't watched them too but I follow lots of blogs who post about them and they're always, always high school - or college, if your lucky. So anything else is already a win! XD
I hear that a season 2 is becoming more and more unlikely, which is a real shame, because they set it up great.
Yeah there's lots of potential! What I've heard is that the next book is even heavier on... questionable content (like VegasPete noncon suddenly), and in addition to the writer problem... uhm yeah. But it's a shame, because the cast is great and the look and director are fantastic as well!
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I am sure this is true, but if you want to elaborate, I would be thrilled!
I am always happy to scream about VegasPete! And to get recs!