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The Untamed reaction post
So I finished The Untamed last night.
Conclusion: it's got a terrible beginning, it's definitely messy, I have tons of criticisms, but also I'm impressed by how the plot all actually works out (everything has a payoff! it all comes together in the end!) and, most importantly, I love Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji (as well as several other characters) as much as I've ever loved any characters. I love them. So much.
There are other characters I love a lot too, but this show is really about WWX and LWJ and their epic love for me, I'll be honest.
This is a show that's about characters. Like, there's tons and tons of plot, but the plot only matters if you care about the characters. So casting is vital and I love the casting. Two thumbs up, casting director! Even the less technically proficient actors inhabited their roles very nicely.
Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo blew me away in the lead roles. Were they technically acting well? I don't know and I don't care. They just so perfectly inhabited those characters. Xiao Zhan has the most endearing mannerisms I've ever seen--like, obviously his face is just beautiful all on its own, but it's his expressions that make me passionately love him. I adore an adorable man. And Wang Yibo managed to give a truly amazing performance: it must be so hard to communicate all that he communicates through so little dialogue and such a limited amount of facial expressions. At first you think he's totally stony-faced, but he's NOT, he's showing you so much through microexpressions. Just the slightest softening of his mouth can make my heart break.
And I love WWX and LWJ as characters so incredibly much. I loved every single second they were onscreen and every single second they weren't onscreen, I was waiting for them to show up again. My babies my loves.
AND THEIR LOVE. They're so devoted, they're so sure of each other, they trust each other SO much. Obviously the stormcloud one being in love with the sunshine one is a favorite trope for a reason, but their spin on it is so beautiful! LWJ struggles so much pre-death with the fact that he worries that his boyfriend is going to the dark side, and it's so sweet (and also 100% completely reasonable). But once WWX comes back--once he has him back, has a second chance--he is absolutely unwavering in a way I love to see. Like, instantly totally physically protective (even when it's from the dogs omg). Instantly handing over any money WWX wants to spend. Never, ever questioning or second-guessing WWX. He's just like, "This is my person and I am going to devote my life to anything he wants and needs." Y'all he buys him liquor and without being asked. This is definitely the kind of ship that just ruins you. I can't even talk about them.
And the sibling stuff is so good! Especially Jiang Cheng! His relationship with WWX is so complicated but so deep. I kept waiting and waiting for the golden core reveal and I was growing frustrated that it kept being delayed, but as soon as it happened, I took back my complaints because it was just so good. And then the big confrontation in the temple where we hear about everything from JC's side--SO GOOD. I love that JC is allowed to be deeply flawed (all of the male characters are, actually) but also he's still a good person, you see where he's coming from, you don't lose sympathy for him, even when he's wrong. But will someone get him a romantic partner? As an ace person, I don't normally say this, but this guy needs to get laid and also he needs someone who's always on his side and both lets him know how wonderful he is but also doesn't take his shit. Kinda sad we never got to see how a romance with Wen Qing would have worked out...is there fic?
Love the WWX/JYL relationship--seeing WWX be doted on is wonderful--but my God, Jiang Yan Li isn't really a person, is she? She never gets to do anything but be sweet and perfect, and it's so frustrating. And I am a person who majorly loves goody-two-shoes characters! But she has no flaws whatsoever, and it keeps her from being an engaging character except in her relationship to WWX. It's such a missed opportunity. Wen Qing is also underwritten, but she manages to be much more of a dynamic character. Madame Yu is barely in the show at all, but she at least gets to be complicated (love that she's unabashedly terrible to WWX but also brave and really loves her husband. People are complicated!). Mian Mian is a favorite, but she's such a bit player that we don't get to know her much.
There's just so much potential for female awesome in this world and so little payoff. In this world, it is clearly possible for women to be powerful, so why are there so few women? Even in the big everybody's-here cultivator scenes, we only see a handful of women. The show (and presumably the novel) have all the kinds of problems that we complain about in slash fanfiction; JYL in particular is such a stock slashfic female. TOO MANY DUDES NOT ENOUGH LADIES.
Honestly possibly my favorite relationship payoff in the whole thing was the Wen Yuan reveal???? Like, seeing WWX reunited with his precious son (LAN SIZHUI HUGS HIS LEG!!!!) while his husband and his weird little demon-brother looks on just made me so, so so happy. WWX's dedication and love for the Wens obviously has some bad consequences for him, and it's tragic the strain it had on his other relationships, but I also love it so much. Wen Qing becomes his big sister, Wen Ning becomes his little brother, and Wen Yuan is his son.
Speaking of Lan Sizhui, he is my precious, sweet, studious, adorable son and I love him so much and want to squish his face. Let him come live with me and I will bake cookies for him and cuddle him and tell him he's pretty.
I became really fond of Wen Ning, too--this incredibly socially awkward but gentle kid is transformed into a creature of violence. He's a Frankenstein's monster character, only things go better for him because WWX is a better person than Victor Frankenstein and actually tries to do right by him. What a sweet puppy. The way they constantly use his super-strength is hilarious. He's basically a packhorse. I hope he finds a partner (romantic or otherwise--he just wants to be loved!) who loves him and has a happy not-life!
Lan Xichen ended up becoming much more interesting to me than I thought he would. Like, I liked him as a big brother who just wants his socially-awkward little brother to have a friend (though lol to how that turned out), but his relationship with JGY was so very interesting and tragic. I do believe that JGY respected and loved him (as much as someone that twisted can love someone) and honestly his love for LXC was the purest thing in him. LXC believed in JGY SO MUCH and JGY could have taken that as an opportunity to become a better person, but he didn't, and it's just heartbreaking to watch LXC realize that. Truly the tragical romance of the show.
Okay, to get to JGY: what an effective villain!!!!! At the beginning of the show, I'm like, "Why is this guy even here and taking so much screentime?" but he totally won me over. The actor's performance was occasionally OTT but mostly it was just so good and unsettling. Like, I really did spend the first half of the show unsure of whether the text wanted me to trust him or not, which is good writing (and acting). I kind of hate that the child of a prostitute ends up being a terrible person (it's too "blood will out" for me) BUT the idea that the way that he's treated because of that had such a profound effect on him is SO GOOD. He truly has suffered and been mistreated, and you can feel sorry for that, but also: he made such terrible, terrible choices, and he started thinking of himself as a victim who could not wrong others because he was wronged. He convinces himself that he's only doing what he has to do, even though that's clearly not true. I just think he's one of the best villains I've seen in a while, and those are the most sinister dimples I've ever seen. Is he sometimes cartoonish? Absolutely. But also: it makes sense.
Sidenote though: I literally cannot believe that JGY had his father raped to death. Like, I can believe it was in the book. I cannot believe it made it by the censors. WTH China?????
Speaking of villains, is NHS a villain? He certainly has a lot of the traits of one. And yet if you're going to be deeply manipulative, using that power to undermine JGY is a good way to use those skills (as I mentioned to Jamie, someone should write meta about NHS and JGY and their approaches to and uses of manipulation). I need to think back about whether he actually did anything really wrong. I'm fascinated by characters who pretend to be totally ineffectual so that others will underestimate them, though I will say that I don't think the show did that great of a job of setting that up with NHS. It just left too much to the imagination. I can sort of imagine how he might find out the stuff he finds out, but I think we needed to see a little more. Nonetheless, I had not anticipated him being one of the most interesting characters on the show; if I rewatch at some point, I'll pay lots of attention to him.
As I mentioned before: I think there's loads of potential in the Yi City characters, but they felt VERY pasted on to this particular story. Xue Yang sure is entertaining and Xiao Xingchen sure is beautiful though. Thanks for all the beautiful men, casting director! Two more thumbs up!
Really this story (the show? the book? haven't read it yet, so it's hard to tell) does such good character work (women aside) because it allows all the characters to be so deeply flawed, but all of their flaws are the inverse of their strengths, which is is like the definition of good characterization. (Love this post about WWX.)
The plotting is great too. I expected it to be messy (and so much the worldbuilding is silly and makes no sense), but just about everything came together and was explained! I'm really impressed by that!
Random asides:
+ I want to live in the aesthetics of Lotus Pier, but in the location of Cloud Recesses.
+ The costumes were insanely gorgeous, and I now know why I'm not attracted to real-life men: because none of them dress like WWX and look that good in that costume. Wow hi hello sailor. I almost understand allo people when I look at him.
+ The Lan clan are elves. They just are.
+ Drunk!LWJ is my favorite thing in the whole entire world and I will read a hundred thousand fics about him.
+ NOT ENOUGH DUCKLINGS! No seriously: less Yi City Arc, more Ducklings.
+ I now really want to try lotus seeds.
+ Poor Jin Ling. That boy needs some affection in addition to discipline. He's a brat, but look who's raising him??? I love JC but he should not be in charge of children before he learns to chill out.
+ I am actually angry at how little we find out about the Lan Bros' parents. UM WAY TO TEASE. There is obviously an epic and interesting story there, but we know almost nothing! I get that it's there to both parallel WLJ falling in love with someone who's unsuitable and breaks the Lan clan rules and also to show how dedicated and loyal and stubborn and wonderful WLJ is to keep visiting his mother every month, but I need more. Where is the prequel????
+ I want a thousand AUs about WWX/LWJ (especially, like, arranged marriage stuff!!!), but also I want a thousand post-series fics about the Chief Cultivator and his trophy husband.
+ Other fic I want: a very grumpy JC learning to let his brother back into his life again but being (did I mention this already?) VERY GRUMPY about it. And him and LWJ glowering at each other across tables. My new favorite brothers-in-law!!!!!
And I'm compiling all my Tumblr reaction posts here in one place, just for my own amusement.
+ i can’t wrap my mind around the fact that jiang cheng is wei wuxian’s younger brother? he has such constantly harassed older brother energy?
[post-watch note: this became less true the longer i watched the show.]
+ i don’t want yanli to have to marry this dude!!!
[post-watch note: i never did really come around on him, but the planting lotuses scene was sweet]
+ wait, the jiang siblings have been in the cloud recesses for HALF A YEAR????
[tags: i thought they were there like a week and a half!]
+ i knew i would love wei wuxian from basically the first moment i laid eyes on him and i very much do, but i am surprised by how fond i am becoming of lan wangji
[tags: he must be giving all the microexpressions because how can i feel this much affection for his stone face?]
+ so, like, wei wuxian is a disaster bi who somehow manages to stumble into functionality when the moment calls for it and lan wangji is a distinguished gay who’s always inwardly screaming, right?
+ omg lwj is realizing his boyfriend has fallen to the dark side and he’s so heartbroken poor bb!!!!
[tags: i feel like i watched his heart crack open right in front of my eyes, and he barely moved his face!!!, magic!]
+ soup is a like a Motif on this show.
+ i can’t decide if the narrative wants me to trust meng yao or not
[tags: i do appreciate his GIANT ASS CRUSH on lan xichen though]
[post-watch note: lol]
+ this jin cousin who keeps trying to start fights and insulting everyone is really the worst. like at least the wen clan went big with their villainy.
+ this show is so full of nonsense. “he isn’t dead, his spiritual conscience is just stolen”???? what the heck does that even MEAN?
+ this drama queen in his pristine robes with his paper umbrella in the middle of a frickin’ thunderstorm
+ i love how wwx is right in everything he’s doing, he’s just using the wrong kind of magic to do it. like, yeah, of course this is how he goes to the dark side. he’s still trying to do the right thing!
[tags: it's so saaaaad, and i didn't expect this level of moral complexity tbh]
+ back to the untamed: xue yang is back and flirting outrageously with wei wuxian and there’s gotta be fic out there where they’re enemies with benefits, right?
+ lan sizhui is not only the sweetest boy, he is also the smartest and most studious and he will be my son FOREVER
[tags: i love him i want to adopt him let him come live with me, i will pinch his cheeks and feed him cookies, i will start baking just so i can feed him cookies!]
+ lan wangji is always dramatically flipping or flying in out of nowhere, sleeves billowing, sword at the ready to protect his man, and i love to see it
+ if the mdzs writer had an editor, that editor would have told her to drop the yi city arc. like…this has nothing to do with anything. i don’t know why the showrunners included it. it’s taking up screen time that could have gone to my boyfriend lan wangji or to the ducklings or to sibling interactions or something.
xue yang is a very entertaining villain, and this could be an interesting story, but it doesn’t belong in this story! the writer was clearly attached to them and included them in this self-indulgent way, but JUST WRITE THEM THEIR OWN STORY. i would read/watch that one! but can we get back to lan wangji PLEASE?
on the other hand: xaio xingcheng’s weird alien/elf-prince hybrid face is exactly my favorite kind of face so it’s not a total loss.
[post-watch note: i stand by this]
+ the guy who plays meng yao freaks me out, but he is VERY good in his role
[post-watch note: i stand by this too]
+ poor lan xichen. all he wanted was for his socially awkward little brother to have a friend. and look how that turned out.
+ i have to say, it is annoying watching a show in which someone who gets stabbed right through the torso–like, a sword going all the way through–can either a) die or b) walk it off like it’s a charley horse. and you just never know which one it’s going to be.
+ lan wangji just trusts wei wuxian SO MUCH i just can’t handle it
+ omg the bunnies are following wlj i’m crying
+ i know that wwx is small-boned but he is way too big to be riding that donkey someone put that poor donkey out of its misery
+ wlj is wwx’s sugar daddy and i LOVE it. no hesitation on wwx’s part to offer wlj’s money. no hesitation on wlj’s part to give it.
+ i did not anticipate getting to see mian mian again, so i am very pleased
[tags: glad she's happy!!!, she deserves it!!!]
+ i love that the wind is always blowing just enough to whip around the two loose parts of wwx’s hair to highlight his cheekbones but not ruffle the rest of his hair at all. perfect.
+ i was getting annoyed with how long it was taking to get to the big golden core reveal but that was SO worth the wait
[tags: nothing i love more than a wronged character who won't defend himself being championed by someone who tells the truth, watching everyone else have to face the truth, and the wronged character be justified, SO SATISFYING
+ lwj staring down at wwx’s unconscious face as he realizes what wwx gave up and the pain he went through to do it
is the swooniest thing i’ve ever seen
+ wen ning can’t read a room, but i can forgive him because of the telling jiang cheng scene
[tags: also because the way the others use him as a packhorse because of his superstrength is HILARIOUS]
+ wwx trying to find wen ning a girlfriend so he’ll stop playing third wheel has me SCREAMING
[tags: also i hope wen ning DOES find a girlfriend who dotes on him]
[post-watch note: well at least he got to bond with his precious little cousin???]
+ i love no matter what happens, we always have a pause long enough for wwx and lwj to exchange significant glances. i bet significant glances take up a full sixth of the entire running time of this show
+ that dimple is doing a lot of the heavy lifting in jin guang yao’s smirks
[tags: i have never seen such a sinister dimple]
+ okay we’re FINALLY getting the big wwx/jc confrontation and it is SO GOOD
[tags: SO SO GOOD, worth waiting for]
+ nobody does the *slowly closing eyes in extreme emotional exhaustion* better than lan xichen
[tags: and for such a wide variety of reasons too!, like he'll do it when wwx is saying something stupid, but also when he's just found out that the person he trusted was super evil!, it's the little black dress of expressions!, good for all occasions!]
+ i really love that meng yao didn’t have any particular animosity towards wwx, he just accurately saw that wwx’s arrogance would make people eager to believe he was evil, and he took advantage of that
[tags: and like i really do think he respected and admired and love lan xichen as much as it was possible for him to love someone, and lxc really had that faith him in him, he could have chosen to live up to that faith but he didn't, it's really sad]
+ wwx getting annoyed at other people’s monologue-ing is hilarious like dude you do it ALL THE TIME
[tags: he just wants to get back to him being the one talking]
So...fic recs?????
Conclusion: it's got a terrible beginning, it's definitely messy, I have tons of criticisms, but also I'm impressed by how the plot all actually works out (everything has a payoff! it all comes together in the end!) and, most importantly, I love Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji (as well as several other characters) as much as I've ever loved any characters. I love them. So much.
There are other characters I love a lot too, but this show is really about WWX and LWJ and their epic love for me, I'll be honest.
This is a show that's about characters. Like, there's tons and tons of plot, but the plot only matters if you care about the characters. So casting is vital and I love the casting. Two thumbs up, casting director! Even the less technically proficient actors inhabited their roles very nicely.
Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo blew me away in the lead roles. Were they technically acting well? I don't know and I don't care. They just so perfectly inhabited those characters. Xiao Zhan has the most endearing mannerisms I've ever seen--like, obviously his face is just beautiful all on its own, but it's his expressions that make me passionately love him. I adore an adorable man. And Wang Yibo managed to give a truly amazing performance: it must be so hard to communicate all that he communicates through so little dialogue and such a limited amount of facial expressions. At first you think he's totally stony-faced, but he's NOT, he's showing you so much through microexpressions. Just the slightest softening of his mouth can make my heart break.
And I love WWX and LWJ as characters so incredibly much. I loved every single second they were onscreen and every single second they weren't onscreen, I was waiting for them to show up again. My babies my loves.
AND THEIR LOVE. They're so devoted, they're so sure of each other, they trust each other SO much. Obviously the stormcloud one being in love with the sunshine one is a favorite trope for a reason, but their spin on it is so beautiful! LWJ struggles so much pre-death with the fact that he worries that his boyfriend is going to the dark side, and it's so sweet (and also 100% completely reasonable). But once WWX comes back--once he has him back, has a second chance--he is absolutely unwavering in a way I love to see. Like, instantly totally physically protective (even when it's from the dogs omg). Instantly handing over any money WWX wants to spend. Never, ever questioning or second-guessing WWX. He's just like, "This is my person and I am going to devote my life to anything he wants and needs." Y'all he buys him liquor and without being asked. This is definitely the kind of ship that just ruins you. I can't even talk about them.
And the sibling stuff is so good! Especially Jiang Cheng! His relationship with WWX is so complicated but so deep. I kept waiting and waiting for the golden core reveal and I was growing frustrated that it kept being delayed, but as soon as it happened, I took back my complaints because it was just so good. And then the big confrontation in the temple where we hear about everything from JC's side--SO GOOD. I love that JC is allowed to be deeply flawed (all of the male characters are, actually) but also he's still a good person, you see where he's coming from, you don't lose sympathy for him, even when he's wrong. But will someone get him a romantic partner? As an ace person, I don't normally say this, but this guy needs to get laid and also he needs someone who's always on his side and both lets him know how wonderful he is but also doesn't take his shit. Kinda sad we never got to see how a romance with Wen Qing would have worked out...is there fic?
Love the WWX/JYL relationship--seeing WWX be doted on is wonderful--but my God, Jiang Yan Li isn't really a person, is she? She never gets to do anything but be sweet and perfect, and it's so frustrating. And I am a person who majorly loves goody-two-shoes characters! But she has no flaws whatsoever, and it keeps her from being an engaging character except in her relationship to WWX. It's such a missed opportunity. Wen Qing is also underwritten, but she manages to be much more of a dynamic character. Madame Yu is barely in the show at all, but she at least gets to be complicated (love that she's unabashedly terrible to WWX but also brave and really loves her husband. People are complicated!). Mian Mian is a favorite, but she's such a bit player that we don't get to know her much.
There's just so much potential for female awesome in this world and so little payoff. In this world, it is clearly possible for women to be powerful, so why are there so few women? Even in the big everybody's-here cultivator scenes, we only see a handful of women. The show (and presumably the novel) have all the kinds of problems that we complain about in slash fanfiction; JYL in particular is such a stock slashfic female. TOO MANY DUDES NOT ENOUGH LADIES.
Honestly possibly my favorite relationship payoff in the whole thing was the Wen Yuan reveal???? Like, seeing WWX reunited with his precious son (LAN SIZHUI HUGS HIS LEG!!!!) while his husband and his weird little demon-brother looks on just made me so, so so happy. WWX's dedication and love for the Wens obviously has some bad consequences for him, and it's tragic the strain it had on his other relationships, but I also love it so much. Wen Qing becomes his big sister, Wen Ning becomes his little brother, and Wen Yuan is his son.
Speaking of Lan Sizhui, he is my precious, sweet, studious, adorable son and I love him so much and want to squish his face. Let him come live with me and I will bake cookies for him and cuddle him and tell him he's pretty.
I became really fond of Wen Ning, too--this incredibly socially awkward but gentle kid is transformed into a creature of violence. He's a Frankenstein's monster character, only things go better for him because WWX is a better person than Victor Frankenstein and actually tries to do right by him. What a sweet puppy. The way they constantly use his super-strength is hilarious. He's basically a packhorse. I hope he finds a partner (romantic or otherwise--he just wants to be loved!) who loves him and has a happy not-life!
Lan Xichen ended up becoming much more interesting to me than I thought he would. Like, I liked him as a big brother who just wants his socially-awkward little brother to have a friend (though lol to how that turned out), but his relationship with JGY was so very interesting and tragic. I do believe that JGY respected and loved him (as much as someone that twisted can love someone) and honestly his love for LXC was the purest thing in him. LXC believed in JGY SO MUCH and JGY could have taken that as an opportunity to become a better person, but he didn't, and it's just heartbreaking to watch LXC realize that. Truly the tragical romance of the show.
Okay, to get to JGY: what an effective villain!!!!! At the beginning of the show, I'm like, "Why is this guy even here and taking so much screentime?" but he totally won me over. The actor's performance was occasionally OTT but mostly it was just so good and unsettling. Like, I really did spend the first half of the show unsure of whether the text wanted me to trust him or not, which is good writing (and acting). I kind of hate that the child of a prostitute ends up being a terrible person (it's too "blood will out" for me) BUT the idea that the way that he's treated because of that had such a profound effect on him is SO GOOD. He truly has suffered and been mistreated, and you can feel sorry for that, but also: he made such terrible, terrible choices, and he started thinking of himself as a victim who could not wrong others because he was wronged. He convinces himself that he's only doing what he has to do, even though that's clearly not true. I just think he's one of the best villains I've seen in a while, and those are the most sinister dimples I've ever seen. Is he sometimes cartoonish? Absolutely. But also: it makes sense.
Sidenote though: I literally cannot believe that JGY had his father raped to death. Like, I can believe it was in the book. I cannot believe it made it by the censors. WTH China?????
Speaking of villains, is NHS a villain? He certainly has a lot of the traits of one. And yet if you're going to be deeply manipulative, using that power to undermine JGY is a good way to use those skills (as I mentioned to Jamie, someone should write meta about NHS and JGY and their approaches to and uses of manipulation). I need to think back about whether he actually did anything really wrong. I'm fascinated by characters who pretend to be totally ineffectual so that others will underestimate them, though I will say that I don't think the show did that great of a job of setting that up with NHS. It just left too much to the imagination. I can sort of imagine how he might find out the stuff he finds out, but I think we needed to see a little more. Nonetheless, I had not anticipated him being one of the most interesting characters on the show; if I rewatch at some point, I'll pay lots of attention to him.
As I mentioned before: I think there's loads of potential in the Yi City characters, but they felt VERY pasted on to this particular story. Xue Yang sure is entertaining and Xiao Xingchen sure is beautiful though. Thanks for all the beautiful men, casting director! Two more thumbs up!
Really this story (the show? the book? haven't read it yet, so it's hard to tell) does such good character work (women aside) because it allows all the characters to be so deeply flawed, but all of their flaws are the inverse of their strengths, which is is like the definition of good characterization. (Love this post about WWX.)
The plotting is great too. I expected it to be messy (and so much the worldbuilding is silly and makes no sense), but just about everything came together and was explained! I'm really impressed by that!
Random asides:
+ I want to live in the aesthetics of Lotus Pier, but in the location of Cloud Recesses.
+ The costumes were insanely gorgeous, and I now know why I'm not attracted to real-life men: because none of them dress like WWX and look that good in that costume. Wow hi hello sailor. I almost understand allo people when I look at him.
+ The Lan clan are elves. They just are.
+ Drunk!LWJ is my favorite thing in the whole entire world and I will read a hundred thousand fics about him.
+ NOT ENOUGH DUCKLINGS! No seriously: less Yi City Arc, more Ducklings.
+ I now really want to try lotus seeds.
+ Poor Jin Ling. That boy needs some affection in addition to discipline. He's a brat, but look who's raising him??? I love JC but he should not be in charge of children before he learns to chill out.
+ I am actually angry at how little we find out about the Lan Bros' parents. UM WAY TO TEASE. There is obviously an epic and interesting story there, but we know almost nothing! I get that it's there to both parallel WLJ falling in love with someone who's unsuitable and breaks the Lan clan rules and also to show how dedicated and loyal and stubborn and wonderful WLJ is to keep visiting his mother every month, but I need more. Where is the prequel????
+ I want a thousand AUs about WWX/LWJ (especially, like, arranged marriage stuff!!!), but also I want a thousand post-series fics about the Chief Cultivator and his trophy husband.
+ Other fic I want: a very grumpy JC learning to let his brother back into his life again but being (did I mention this already?) VERY GRUMPY about it. And him and LWJ glowering at each other across tables. My new favorite brothers-in-law!!!!!
And I'm compiling all my Tumblr reaction posts here in one place, just for my own amusement.
+ i can’t wrap my mind around the fact that jiang cheng is wei wuxian’s younger brother? he has such constantly harassed older brother energy?
[post-watch note: this became less true the longer i watched the show.]
+ i don’t want yanli to have to marry this dude!!!
[post-watch note: i never did really come around on him, but the planting lotuses scene was sweet]
+ wait, the jiang siblings have been in the cloud recesses for HALF A YEAR????
[tags: i thought they were there like a week and a half!]
+ i knew i would love wei wuxian from basically the first moment i laid eyes on him and i very much do, but i am surprised by how fond i am becoming of lan wangji
[tags: he must be giving all the microexpressions because how can i feel this much affection for his stone face?]
+ so, like, wei wuxian is a disaster bi who somehow manages to stumble into functionality when the moment calls for it and lan wangji is a distinguished gay who’s always inwardly screaming, right?
+ omg lwj is realizing his boyfriend has fallen to the dark side and he’s so heartbroken poor bb!!!!
[tags: i feel like i watched his heart crack open right in front of my eyes, and he barely moved his face!!!, magic!]
+ soup is a like a Motif on this show.
+ i can’t decide if the narrative wants me to trust meng yao or not
[tags: i do appreciate his GIANT ASS CRUSH on lan xichen though]
[post-watch note: lol]
+ this jin cousin who keeps trying to start fights and insulting everyone is really the worst. like at least the wen clan went big with their villainy.
+ this show is so full of nonsense. “he isn’t dead, his spiritual conscience is just stolen”???? what the heck does that even MEAN?
+ this drama queen in his pristine robes with his paper umbrella in the middle of a frickin’ thunderstorm
+ i love how wwx is right in everything he’s doing, he’s just using the wrong kind of magic to do it. like, yeah, of course this is how he goes to the dark side. he’s still trying to do the right thing!
[tags: it's so saaaaad, and i didn't expect this level of moral complexity tbh]
+ back to the untamed: xue yang is back and flirting outrageously with wei wuxian and there’s gotta be fic out there where they’re enemies with benefits, right?
+ lan sizhui is not only the sweetest boy, he is also the smartest and most studious and he will be my son FOREVER
[tags: i love him i want to adopt him let him come live with me, i will pinch his cheeks and feed him cookies, i will start baking just so i can feed him cookies!]
+ lan wangji is always dramatically flipping or flying in out of nowhere, sleeves billowing, sword at the ready to protect his man, and i love to see it
+ if the mdzs writer had an editor, that editor would have told her to drop the yi city arc. like…this has nothing to do with anything. i don’t know why the showrunners included it. it’s taking up screen time that could have gone to my boyfriend lan wangji or to the ducklings or to sibling interactions or something.
xue yang is a very entertaining villain, and this could be an interesting story, but it doesn’t belong in this story! the writer was clearly attached to them and included them in this self-indulgent way, but JUST WRITE THEM THEIR OWN STORY. i would read/watch that one! but can we get back to lan wangji PLEASE?
on the other hand: xaio xingcheng’s weird alien/elf-prince hybrid face is exactly my favorite kind of face so it’s not a total loss.
[post-watch note: i stand by this]
+ the guy who plays meng yao freaks me out, but he is VERY good in his role
[post-watch note: i stand by this too]
+ poor lan xichen. all he wanted was for his socially awkward little brother to have a friend. and look how that turned out.
+ i have to say, it is annoying watching a show in which someone who gets stabbed right through the torso–like, a sword going all the way through–can either a) die or b) walk it off like it’s a charley horse. and you just never know which one it’s going to be.
+ lan wangji just trusts wei wuxian SO MUCH i just can’t handle it
+ omg the bunnies are following wlj i’m crying
+ i know that wwx is small-boned but he is way too big to be riding that donkey someone put that poor donkey out of its misery
+ wlj is wwx’s sugar daddy and i LOVE it. no hesitation on wwx’s part to offer wlj’s money. no hesitation on wlj’s part to give it.
+ i did not anticipate getting to see mian mian again, so i am very pleased
[tags: glad she's happy!!!, she deserves it!!!]
+ i love that the wind is always blowing just enough to whip around the two loose parts of wwx’s hair to highlight his cheekbones but not ruffle the rest of his hair at all. perfect.
+ i was getting annoyed with how long it was taking to get to the big golden core reveal but that was SO worth the wait
[tags: nothing i love more than a wronged character who won't defend himself being championed by someone who tells the truth, watching everyone else have to face the truth, and the wronged character be justified, SO SATISFYING
+ lwj staring down at wwx’s unconscious face as he realizes what wwx gave up and the pain he went through to do it
is the swooniest thing i’ve ever seen
+ wen ning can’t read a room, but i can forgive him because of the telling jiang cheng scene
[tags: also because the way the others use him as a packhorse because of his superstrength is HILARIOUS]
+ wwx trying to find wen ning a girlfriend so he’ll stop playing third wheel has me SCREAMING
[tags: also i hope wen ning DOES find a girlfriend who dotes on him]
[post-watch note: well at least he got to bond with his precious little cousin???]
+ i love no matter what happens, we always have a pause long enough for wwx and lwj to exchange significant glances. i bet significant glances take up a full sixth of the entire running time of this show
+ that dimple is doing a lot of the heavy lifting in jin guang yao’s smirks
[tags: i have never seen such a sinister dimple]
+ okay we’re FINALLY getting the big wwx/jc confrontation and it is SO GOOD
[tags: SO SO GOOD, worth waiting for]
+ nobody does the *slowly closing eyes in extreme emotional exhaustion* better than lan xichen
[tags: and for such a wide variety of reasons too!, like he'll do it when wwx is saying something stupid, but also when he's just found out that the person he trusted was super evil!, it's the little black dress of expressions!, good for all occasions!]
+ i really love that meng yao didn’t have any particular animosity towards wwx, he just accurately saw that wwx’s arrogance would make people eager to believe he was evil, and he took advantage of that
[tags: and like i really do think he respected and admired and love lan xichen as much as it was possible for him to love someone, and lxc really had that faith him in him, he could have chosen to live up to that faith but he didn't, it's really sad]
+ wwx getting annoyed at other people’s monologue-ing is hilarious like dude you do it ALL THE TIME
[tags: he just wants to get back to him being the one talking]
So...fic recs?????
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A few notes not in order:
All hail Wang Yibo, microexpression king. :)
NHS just wants revenge. And he's not above using everyone to do it. I don't think he's a villain. Chessmaster, totally. Villain?
I think SL and XXC are from an earlier story that the author originally wrote in high school, at least I think I read that somewhere.
There's too much here I need to think about what you said more. -_-; Sorry.
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NHS just wants revenge. And he's not above using everyone to do it. I don't think he's a villain. Chessmaster, totally. Villain?
I was just trying to remember if he did anything bad. I think I'd need to rewatch the show and see what I pick up on, but atm I can't remember everything, so, yeah, not a villain.
No need to apologize! The post is always here!
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You can, I guess, make the argument that he nudged MXY towards Sacrifice Summons, but I wouldn't actually go that far. MXY would have done something stupid, all NHS did was to remind him that ritual exists.
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ANYHOO, my point is that I saw (outside of what you'd lj-cut for spoilers) that you were looking for fic recs. Now, I might be clueless abt the show or the characters, BUT I do know there are folks reccing fics over at
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Thank you so very much for the link! That's a fantastic resource!
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SAME. So much same. I love the two of them with my entire heart, the same way I've felt about all of my most favorite ships and characters. I. Adore. Them.
the plot only matters if you care about the characters
Yes! There is a metric ton of plot, but it only matters because the characters matter so much to me. I care about them deeply. What they go through and how their stories end matters to me so much as a result. The plot things that bug me only bug me because of how they affect my darlings, you now? I want them to have the best stories possible.
Were they technically acting well? I don't know and I don't care. They just so perfectly inhabited those characters.
Agreed so hard. They were Lan Zhan and Wei Ying. I don't care if I never see them in anything else and thus am never in a position to objectively evaluate their acting chops. It doesn't matter because they perfectly became two characters who wholly stole my heart. (I am reminded of Kim Myungsoo so perfectly inhabiting the role of Lee Hyunsoo in SUFBB. Like, it didn't matter if he ever acted well or again after that. He was perfect and I love him for being Hyunsoo so thoroughly.)
My babies my loves.
MY BABIES MY LOVES. YES.
AND THEIR LOVE. They're so devoted, they're so sure of each other, they trust each other SO much... once WWX comes back--once he has him back, has a second chance--he is absolutely unwavering in a way I love to see... He's just like, "This is my person and I am going to devote my life to anything he wants and needs." ...This is definitely the kind of ship that just ruins you. I can't even talk about them.
This is exactly how I feel. Exactly. I could probably talk about them more if I didn't love them so much. /emma This is one of The Great Ships for me. I cannot even express my devotion.
I love that JC is allowed to be deeply flawed (all of the male characters are, actually) but also he's still a good person, you see where he's coming from, you don't lose sympathy for him, even when he's wrong.
I would go to war for Jiang Cheng. I would die on a hill for Jiang Cheng. MY KINGDOM FOR JIANG WANYIN. (and also I would scold Jiang Cheng. And also I would hug Jiang Cheng. And also I would find Jiang Cheng a girlfriend and give him a kitten or possibly six kittens. I would not give him a puppy because he wouldn't accept it; it would scare his shithead brother when he visits and Sandu Shengshou cannot have that.)
Kinda sad we never got to see how a romance with Wen Qing would have worked out...is there fic?
There is, I have read some, and if I can find it I'll send it all your way. There's also quite a lot of Jiang Cheng/Nie Huaisang and Jiang Cheng/Lan Xichen fic out there. I cannot vouch for any of it because it's not my cup of tea. But I imagine there's some really good stuff if you go looking.
Mian Mian is a favorite, but she's such a bit player that we don't get to know her much.
The two novels I want but will never get are 1) about the previous generation, as we've discussed, and 2) about Mian Mian (Luo Qingyang)'s journey from joining the Jin sect as a disciple, her sister/friend/confidant relationship with Jin Zixuan, trying to navigate the sexist world of cultivation, leaving the sect in disgust (the show doesn't do that part justice imo), and then marrying a regular guy and roaming around as a rogue cultivator. Like, what a great story that would make!
There's just so much potential for female awesome in this world and so little payoff.
The worst part of the story in any format. Bar none. And sadly, it's nothing new - just part and parcel of slash fic. Which is ultimately what this story is at its core. A 400K slash fic. At least the author made very interesting women characters - like she made an effort? I want to know them more, which means their foundations as characters are compelling. But she ultimately dropped the ball hard with all of the ladies.
Speaking of Lan Sizhui, he is my precious, sweet, studious, adorable son and I love him so much and want to squish his face. Let him come live with me and I will bake cookies for him and cuddle him and tell him he's pretty.
No one is better than Sizhui. No one. Best sweetest baby Lan (and his two best babas!). I read somewhere that Sizhui means 'Remembrance and Longing,' and it's so perfect for him. It also makes me love Lan Wangji that much more for not only being a wonderful father, but giving his son a name that makes my heart sing.
Watching him reconnect with Wen Ning and then with Wei Wuxian had me crying my eyes out during the show.
LXC believed in JGY SO MUCH and JGY could have taken that as an opportunity to become a better person, but he didn't, and it's just heartbreaking to watch LXC realize that.
Watching Lan Xichen be so good, so understanding and loyal, so forgiving and truly, truly kind... and have his heart shattered not once but twice - well, it's torture. He supports Lan Zhan with everything he has though, and doesn't hold any grudges against Wei Ying. He just wants his brother to be happy and I love him for that. Ultimately he's much more brittle than Lan Wangji, and cannot face the world anymore after JGY's betrayal. I don't blame him for going into seclusion, but it feels like a total defeat, when his brother is just starting to find his whole life's happiness. It's tragic and unfair.
As I mentioned before: I think there's loads of potential in the Yi City characters, but they felt VERY pasted on to this particular story.
I will be interested to see how you feel about the Yi City arc after reading the book. The show did it a disservice in my opinion by making it so ancillary to the rest of the story. It's woven into the novel at various points; we're drawn back to Yi City over and over to learn bits more about what happened there and why it matters. It's not one chapter, it's many and they're not consecutive. Like I've said before I don't love the XXC/SL/XY/A-Quing characters as much as others in fandom, but I very much appreciate the parallel story they tell and how the ducklings and later WWX and LWJ become a part of it. Over and over in the book, there are character parallels that end up blowing my mind.
Really this story (the show? the book? haven't read it yet, so it's hard to tell) does such good character work (women aside) because it allows all the characters to be so deeply flawed, but all of their flaws are the inverse of their strengths, which is is like the definition of good characterization.
The character work in this story is some of the best I've experienced in a long, long time. To juggle such a huge cast of characters with so many stories is a feat of which I can only admire and praise.
The costumes were insanely gorgeous, and I now know why I'm not attracted to real-life men: because none of them dress like WWX and look that good in that costume. Wow hi hello sailor.
He's what a gross gross fangirl might call lickable. Not me of course. I'm reasonable and dignified and would absolutely keep my tongue in my mouth at all times.
The Lan clan are elves. They just are.
TOTALLY. Like if Galadriel came around the corner in Cloud Recesses wearing a Lan forehead ribbon, I would not be caught off guard for a moment.
NOT ENOUGH DUCKLINGS! No seriously: less Yi City Arc, more Ducklings.
But... the Yi City arc is all about the ducklings? It's all ducklings all the time in Yi City. But I take your point - you're of course referring the the amount of time WWX spends in Empathy with A-Qing learning about XXC, XY, and SL. I get that. But the Yi City arc is when the ducklings really start to grow up (and when Jin Ling starts to learn that his da-jiu is maybe not a complete asshole. Even if at that time he mostly only knows that WWX is his illegitimate uncle Mo who harrassed his other uncle and made an ass of himself in front of his whole family. And Jin Ling is only starting to guess that MXY might actually be his uncle Wei. Which is a whole other can of worms because that uncle killed his dad. Yikes.)
Poor Jin Ling. That boy needs some affection in addition to discipline. He's a brat, but look who's raising him??? I love JC but he should not be in charge of children before he learns to chill out.
Another small beef I have with the show is that it does not show how much Jin Ling treasures his jiu jiu. He knows that JC is all bark and no bite. It's why he feels safe enough to rebel and run off and try to be independent before he's really mature enough to do so. I think it's Jiang Cheng's parenting that makes Jin Ling independent and resilient. Like, Jiang Cheng is the
daduncle that lets his kid jump off roofs and go swimming at six months old and try sword practice at 3 years old and tumble around like a wild creature. Jin Ling at 16 is spoiled and immature but he's also brave and trying to show he can be a good cultivator. That's JC's influence. (Being a spoiled brat is definitely JGY's influence, who I'm certain indulges him in a ridiculous manner, probably to try and assuage his guilt)In conclusion, I too love this story so so so soooooo much, and I love Lan Zhan and his Wei Ying more than ANYTHING.
I cannot wait for you to start reccing ME fics!
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There's also quite a lot of Jiang Cheng/Nie Huaisang and Jiang Cheng/Lan Xichen fic out there. I cannot vouch for any of it because it's not my cup of tea.
Okay, I am never reading the former, but I could possibly be convinced by the latter if it was really good, though I'm not going to go looking for that right away. For a show with so many characters, there are surprisingly few to ship Jiang Cheng with, which is tragic because he needs to be shipped. I want him to find a good partner!
The two novels I want but will never get are 1) about the previous generation, as we've discussed, and 2) about Mian Mian (Luo Qingyang)'s journey from joining the Jin sect as a disciple, her sister/friend/confidant relationship with Jin Zixuan, trying to navigate the sexist world of cultivation, leaving the sect in disgust (the show doesn't do that part justice imo), and then marrying a regular guy and roaming around as a rogue cultivator. Like, what a great story that would make!
YESSSSSS. Love this!
I read somewhere that Sizhui means 'Remembrance and Longing,' and it's so perfect for him. It also makes me love Lan Wangji that much more for not only being a wonderful father, but giving his son a name that makes my heart sing.
OH! Thank you for sharing this!
I did not pick up on LXC going into seclusion, but that makes his parents’ story even more resonant. Poor guy. I hope he recovers and comes out, because he deserves to have a life that isn’t ruined by JGY.
He's what a gross gross fangirl might call lickable. Not me of course. I'm reasonable and dignified and would absolutely keep my tongue in my mouth at all times.
Only the very worst people would say such obviously ridiculous things.
you're of course referring the the amount of time WWX spends in Empathy with A-Qing learning about XXC, XY, and SL.
Yeah, that’s what I was saying.
I am SO glad to hear that book!JC is a better dad! The show only ever shows him interacting harshly or angrily with Jin Ling.
Speaking of book things--you mentioned in your post that in the book, JGY didn't know he and his wife were related and WHY DID THEY CHANGE THAT??????? That is such a stupid thing to change!!!!! It makes no sense!!!! I'm going to ignore that and go with book canon for that one.
and I love Lan Zhan and his Wei Ying more than ANYTHING
MEEEE TOOOO.
I will definitely collect the best fics I read and rec them to you! I’m glad we get to share this! It’s so fun!
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I am SO glad to hear that book!JC is a better dad! The show only ever shows him interacting harshly or angrily with Jin Ling.
I mean, he still does nothing but yell and scold in the book. But I got a better sense that the yelling doesn't ~hurt~ Jin Ling, only makes him more determined to prove he can be grown up and capable too. (He also has the spectre of his father hanging over him, who was rated one of the most talented cultivators among his peers). I can't remember his exact words, but he tells WWX that his uncle is all bluster.
Speaking of book things--you mentioned in your post that in the book, JGY didn't know he and his wife were related and WHY DID THEY CHANGE THAT???????
He still finds out they're related before they get married and marries her anyway, but the difference is he doesn't consummate the marriage in the book. They already had a sexual relationship resulting in her pregnancy before they got married and before he knew the truth. I think he was hoping she would never find out. It seems they get along well and he likes her. Of course, once she knows she has to be eliminated because JGY is ruthless.
I’m glad we get to share this! It’s so fun!
This is the most fun!!!!
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Okay, that's adorable.
He still finds out they're related before they get married and marries her anyway, but the difference is he doesn't consummate the marriage in the book.
That still makes so much more sense! What a stupid change!
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I really enjoy your insights into the characters. Wen Qing and Wen Ning are my faves (I just called them 'the cuties' when i was having trouble with people's names and then WN remained a cutie even after becoming kind of undead and I support your movement for him to gain an unlife partner of whatever kind he wishes.)
WWX and LWJ just do so much acting with their faces and I don't know how much of it is a function of the medium (since I understand the actors aren't using their own voices even when it's broadcast in China, that's their main means of performing) and you can get so much out of the way they exchange looks.
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(since I understand the actors aren't using their own voices even when it's broadcast in China, that's their main means of performing)
What??? That's wild! I didn't know!
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suddenly everything makes sense.
(also while watching cql i kept thinking 'why do all the little kids' voices sound like a grownup pretending to be a kid?' i am just now realizing it's because it was probably dubbed with adult voices pretending to be kids.)
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I definitely picked up on the adults pretending to be kids, but I did not realize the adult characters voices were dubbed too!