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when it's just a little off
So in high school I really loved the Fionavar Tapestry. I don't know that it would hold up, but at the time I loved it. Since then, Guy Gavriel Kay has shifted from that high fantasy Narnia-meets-Camelot kind of thing to writing historical fantasy--he researches a culture in a specific era very, very thoroughly, and then writes a fantasy version of it, sometimes with magical elements, sometimes not. Honestly, this is one of the kinds of books I want to write. I really love this idea--it's a way of doing alternate history but with more freedom. His worldbuilding isn't really worldbuilding because he's not creating any of it, but he's evoking it, and he evokes it so very well.
Anyway! I just read his duology the Sarantine Mosaic because one of the books I'm writing now is set in the Byzantine Empire (actually, more like a fantasy version of it) and I like to read books with similar settings while I write.
The books are good. Especially the second one. He's a hell of a writer and even though he can be grandiose sometimes, it's in the service of really digging into ideas that I love seeing explored. Huge cast of diverse characters, interlocking stories, criss-crossing plot elements, complex themes. Good stuff.
And there are a lot of women! Women making choices, women being major players in the plot--in fact, in some ways, women drive the plot even more than men. The women have diverse motivations that are as interesting and nuanced as any of the male character's.
But. The female characters just seem...off. For one thing, they are all beautiful (either straight-up gorgeous, or stunningly attractive, or surprisingly pretty. Not one average-looking woman in the whole thing, much less a *gasp* ugly woman). Which is annoying, and he does remind you a lot of the characters' beauty, but thankfully he doesn't, like, intimately describe the women's faces and bodies in a way that feels gross. So I mostly just roll my eyes about it, but it feels male gazey without actually doing any of the things that the worst male gazey writers do?
If that was all, I wouldn't even bring it up, because there are so many men guilty of thinking that the only women who really matter are conventionally attractive ones that what's the point of even bringing it up? But there's something more with Kay's novels. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's like when he's writing about women I am so aware that he's writing about The Other. I definitely didn't get the feeling while reading it that he hates women (which is something I get from quite a few male writers). I think he likes women. I just think he thinks that women are Different and that shows through in his writing.
It's incredible how something like that shows through. On paper, other than the every-woman-worth-writing-about-is-super-attractive thing, there is nothing wrong with how he writes the women. But there's just this vibe, and I can't deeply analyze it, because I don't understand where it's coming from or what's creating it, but I can't stop thinking about it.
I think that's my fear about writing characters who are different than I am. I am all about research and about sensitivity readers and things like that, but you can get everything technically right and yet still...be off. And I never want to give a reader the feeling that he gives me, of wondering what it is that isn't quite right. Of feeling that the writer is at a distance from his female characters in a way he isn't from his male ones.
I don't know. The books have prompted a lot of thoughts, and yet none of them are very coherent, and I'm not arriving at any conclusions, which is frustrating. I actually think I'll read more of him both because I do like his books but also to see if I can get a handle on what's going on.
Anyway! I just read his duology the Sarantine Mosaic because one of the books I'm writing now is set in the Byzantine Empire (actually, more like a fantasy version of it) and I like to read books with similar settings while I write.
The books are good. Especially the second one. He's a hell of a writer and even though he can be grandiose sometimes, it's in the service of really digging into ideas that I love seeing explored. Huge cast of diverse characters, interlocking stories, criss-crossing plot elements, complex themes. Good stuff.
And there are a lot of women! Women making choices, women being major players in the plot--in fact, in some ways, women drive the plot even more than men. The women have diverse motivations that are as interesting and nuanced as any of the male character's.
But. The female characters just seem...off. For one thing, they are all beautiful (either straight-up gorgeous, or stunningly attractive, or surprisingly pretty. Not one average-looking woman in the whole thing, much less a *gasp* ugly woman). Which is annoying, and he does remind you a lot of the characters' beauty, but thankfully he doesn't, like, intimately describe the women's faces and bodies in a way that feels gross. So I mostly just roll my eyes about it, but it feels male gazey without actually doing any of the things that the worst male gazey writers do?
If that was all, I wouldn't even bring it up, because there are so many men guilty of thinking that the only women who really matter are conventionally attractive ones that what's the point of even bringing it up? But there's something more with Kay's novels. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's like when he's writing about women I am so aware that he's writing about The Other. I definitely didn't get the feeling while reading it that he hates women (which is something I get from quite a few male writers). I think he likes women. I just think he thinks that women are Different and that shows through in his writing.
It's incredible how something like that shows through. On paper, other than the every-woman-worth-writing-about-is-super-attractive thing, there is nothing wrong with how he writes the women. But there's just this vibe, and I can't deeply analyze it, because I don't understand where it's coming from or what's creating it, but I can't stop thinking about it.
I think that's my fear about writing characters who are different than I am. I am all about research and about sensitivity readers and things like that, but you can get everything technically right and yet still...be off. And I never want to give a reader the feeling that he gives me, of wondering what it is that isn't quite right. Of feeling that the writer is at a distance from his female characters in a way he isn't from his male ones.
I don't know. The books have prompted a lot of thoughts, and yet none of them are very coherent, and I'm not arriving at any conclusions, which is frustrating. I actually think I'll read more of him both because I do like his books but also to see if I can get a handle on what's going on.
no subject
I suspect the two are related? I've never read him, so are the female characters just shown through the eyes of the main protagonist, or do we get to see how they view the world?
And I never want to give a reader the feeling that he gives me, of wondering what it is that isn't quite right. Of feeling that the writer is at a distance from his female characters in a way he isn't from his male ones.
See this hit me, because my main character is a 15 year old boy and I am... none of those things.
no subject
To reassure you: there are many writers who write about people who are very, very different than they are that don't give off this vibe at all. There are male writers who write fantastic female characters (not enough, but it's becoming more common!) and white writers who can write really solid characters of color. It's definitely possible to do!
no subject
Sorry, no idea. (Unless I read him...) Hope someone comes along who knows more than I.
There are male writers who write fantastic female characters (not enough, but it's becoming more common!) and white writers who can write really solid characters of color. It's definitely possible to do!
And lots of female writes (say, Agatha Christie) who have male main characters, and I don't think anyone's ever complained?
no subject
Possibilities: Is it the way every female character either wants to have sex with the main character or pretends to? Is it how bright and brilliant they are joined to how little effect they have on the plot? (I don't super recall if the latter is as much of a thing as in some of his other books.)
no subject
DEFINITELY you're right about every woman wanting to have sex with Crispin for no discernible reason. Like, the text does not provide any reason for his attraction. He's not supposed to be especially handsome, especially powerful, especially kind, especially charming so...why? Because he's the main character, that's why. Why are male writers like that?
As for the latter suggestion, I think you're on to something. There are a few of the female characters who fall into that category--why are they even here? I can't remember what her name is, but the slave girl that Crispin saves from the pagan sacrifice does absolutely nothing of further interest in the rest of the series, so why is she even kept around? It would be so easy for her to say, "I'm going to find my long lost family" or something, but it feels like she's kept around because there need to be more women? And the famous actress/dancer granddaughter of the bird sorcerer guy--again, she does little in the plot. Even the three women who do have a large affect on the plot (the empress, the empress's enemy, and the queen back in Italy) are disappointing characters. For one thing, they're all drop-dead gorgeous, which pisses me off. (Why can't women be average-looking? Or even mildly pretty? Why must they be so completely beautiful?) But for another, we never get to see anything from their perspectives. And yes, it does feel like there's lots of telling about how brilliant there are and much less showing than there would be for a male character.
I like Kay, I really do. I want to read more of his historical fantasy. But if he would only learn to write women, I think he'd be a much better writer than he is.