if you know what i'm talking about, you'll understand, otherwise you should probably stay away

[lirazel]

All I'm going to say about the current fandom kerfluffle is:

I find it kind of (sadly) hilarious that just a week or two ago we were having a discussion about whether or not our corner of BtVS fandom was dying out, and now we have absolute proof that we still care. A lot. A lot a lot. It's just kind of heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time that it's something this ugly (and repetative OMG IS THIS 2001? TALK ABOUT A BEADED DEAD PONY WHEN WILL THE UNFUNNY BUSINESS REPORT BE UP?) that is the catalyst. People, friends of mine, I support you in your righteous indignation, but I'm annoyed that this is happening AGAIN.

And now I'm going back to kpop land, where the shipper wars are just as intense but involve significantly less Opression Olympics.

Comments

[muneca-brava.livejournal.com]

Urgh, sometimes I forget how nasty fandom can be but I am always forcefully reminded in the end. I'm glad I'm just watching from the sidelines since I was never properly in BTVS fandom but it must suck for you.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

It's weird because I feel very much at a distance from it personally. I'm mostly just upset on behalf of my friends and even friends of friends--several people have had rape threats in their tumblr inboxes, and most of them aren't even involved in the actual kerfluffle--they've just been targeted because of their shipping preferences. Basically the whole thing is awful and I want it to be over.

The whole thing is gross, and I do not like being reminded that fandom can be this disgusting.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

Nothing like a little controversy to stir things up.

This whole thing has been disgusting. I had just been talking with one of the people who got rape threats when the anons started sending the hate, and now she's withdrawing from a fandom that always gave her a safe place. One of the other ones was at work and got to come home to an inbox full of hate, and the other one just kept on getting anon hate throughout the night even though she tried to reason with the anon. It's been horrible over on tumblr.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

People are so hateful.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Ironic, isn't it? In a very bad way.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Seriously.

Your icon is amazing.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Heeeeeeeeee! I see yours is very similar.

Mine was made by aleurier. I've had it for a few years now but have hardly ever used it.

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

Mm, same here. I was irritated for a bit (um I may have ranted in your askbox actually, so sorry about that), but mostly that it's been ten years and this is coming up again? And enough to spawn this kind of wank? I thought we were past that. :/

(Then the uninvolved started getting targeted in vile ways and now I'm upset and emotionally involved and not even a little gleeful at the idea of wank. Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh.)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

but mostly that it's been ten years and this is coming up again? And enough to spawn this kind of wank? I thought we were past that. :/

Yes. And I agree with you about the vile targeting--I'm not personally friends with any of those people, but I am genuinely angry on their behalves.

I can't wait to get home so I can check my inbox, then. I hate that I can't access it at work.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

I haven't ever been in the Buffy fandom, though I enjoyed the earlier years of the series so, if you pardon my curiousity, what is going on? I mean, the show hadn't been airing for a decade so what on earth can it be about?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I mean, the show hadn't been airing for a decade so what on earth can it be about?

Oh, how I wish that mattered.

In short: there's this guy who has a blog (a very popular one) who watches whole runs of television and blogs about them. He just got to the episode "Wrecked" (where Buffy and Spike have sex for the first time) and wrote a long post full of very personal information (which is his right, of course) and talked about his view of the episode. When people disagreed with his reading of the episode in the comments (not telling him he was wrong, mostly, just saying, 'I see things differently'), things got ugly. People were banned, the whole 'if you ship Buffy and Spike you're a terrible person' thing reared its ugly head, when other victims of abuse disagreed with him he basically dismissed their experiences, and then people who weren't involved in it at all were targeted with terrible hate on tumblr. It's all just ridiculous. I honestly thought we were past this.

[dangermousie.livejournal.com]

That sounds insane! Spike/Buffy was never my thing (I was Buffy/Angel shipper) but why on earth does it matter to anyone who someone else ships? It's not as if that choice would influence the canon outcome or anything (the only time I can understand people going psycho).

Biiiiizarre.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I will never understand the shipping war mentality myself--I really just do not care what people ship. So I can't tell you. All I know is that things are indeed insane over there.

[jeymien.livejournal.com]

All this over Wrecked and Mark's review? You know.. I love his reviews. I really enjoy them, seeing through someone's eye to see it for the first time. And now I feel horrible for him. His review for Wrecked was so personal and I thought he had good insight. Buffy and Spike at this point WERE unhealthy, no matter what it turned into later Season 7. And Mark recognizes that. I hate that it's resurrected the stupid shipper wars. I see he's taken the review down now too, which makes me feel so much for him. He's just going through enjoying it, and it's wrong what people did. I have avoided the comments on his blog, just read his reviews... It's sad that fandom has ended up doing this again a decade later.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

The review isn't down, it's right here.

And the problem isn't that he thought it was unhealthy because I literally don't know anyone who believes it was. The problem was that people disagreed that the unhealthiness was entirely on Spike's part and he lashed out in completely inappropriate ways at people, and that his mods did the same, and that people who agreed with them decided to stalk shippers on tumblr and threaten them. Look, I hate when people make me defend Spike, because he was absolutely terrible in S6. But Buffy was terrible, too, at least at the point we're talking about, and recognizing that was not a personal attack on him. If he was so emotionally invested in a certain reading, that's absolutely fine, but he needs to explicitly state that he doesn't want to hear people disagree with him stead of lashing out in the way that he did. There were no shipper wars until he and his mods started characterizing people who think that both Buffy and Spike were acting in appropriate ways as rape apologists, especially considering that THERE WAS NO ACTUAL RAPE OR EVEN ATTEMPTED RAPE IN THE EPISODE, only consensual sex.

[jeymien.livejournal.com]

Oh, weird! I used the Buffy the Vampire Slayer link and it stopped at Tabula Rasa for some reason. Now just at his main page I see it. Search fail!

Oh man. That's insane that it went that way. *sigh*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, for some reason you can't see it if you go through the BtVS link but only if you go through his main page. It's very strange--other people have thought it disappeared too, so you're not the only one. :D

It really is sad. I totally get that he feels very deeply about this, and that's FINE. I just wish he'd said that he didn't want disagreements (which would be fine--it's his blog) and then this whole thing could have been avoided.

[boot-the-grime.livejournal.com]

I thought it was about the Smashed review, not the Wrecked review? I haven't been going there for weeks and don't want to, but people were talking about his Smashed review and the flame war in the comments, which happened before he even posted the Wrecked review.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just mistyped and then couldn't edit.

[ladyofthelog.livejournal.com]

Man, I'm glad I went with my kneejerk reaction of "white cis guy talking about anything my fave show about ladies? think I'll pass, kthx." D:

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

GOOD DECISION. I hadn't read any of them since FFL, but the collective freaking out on my friends page dragged me over there.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

lol, so much word.

[pocochina.livejournal.com]

Sigh. It's especially silly because as we all know I pretty much share Mark's discomfort with Buffy/Spike, at least to the extent and from a similar intellectual perspective as he expressed it in the post itself? But somehow I manage to have cogent, respectful conversations about them without devolving into...that.

But yeah, I do love that even a couple of new posts or fresh perspectives here and there show how excited so many of us still are about the show. I'm hoping things pick up again as the S9 arc develops.

edited: also I'm still not in the habit of Tumblr so I've been missing the highlights there?! DO TELL.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

It was not pretty. Two of my friends (and a third person who has become a new friend through this) were sent tumblr asks (the de facto messaging system of tumblr) from some anonymous person saying they're sick for shipping Spuffy, they should be raped, killed, etc. one person was at work and came home to these messages, one tried to reason with the person and only got grief, and one person has completely withdrawn from fandom because of this.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY. I totally, totally understand people who are uncomfortable with the ship, and I'm all for people expressing that discomfort. Just, you know, without judging people who disagree with them.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

Icon.

You know what I can't deal with, though? It sounds really a lot like this Mark is just another douche who likes mansplaining feminism to women. Which is… disappointing. I'm glad I never invested heavily in his reviews. He needs to get his fucking privilege checked.