SOS BUFFY FANS

[lirazel]

I mentioned on a certain site that I do not like Xander Harris, mostly because of his fail re: women. I got this in response:

What specifically are you referring to? Like he was definitely a creep sometimes, but it always seemed like the sort of cultural sexism one has to work through and not anything particularly sexist about him.

I do not have the energy or interest to answer this question myself. Anybody got any links to a nice meta/outline of Xander? My go-to post has been f-locked and I can't access it anymore.

Comments

[snickfic]

I don't have any Xander meta to point you to, but my first thought would be, "How is 'cultural sexism' not sexism??" Just because sexism is part of the cultural doesn't somehow keep you from being sexist.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Right??? But this person is generally someone whose opinion I don't immediately dismiss, so I actually do want to give him an answer.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

YES this person seems like they're trying to split hairs, saying it's SOCIETY and not the INDIVIDUAL who is sexist. WTF.

[laeryn.livejournal.com]

Can't help you on this, but this got me thinking. Basically, as I grew up, I never realized there was anything wrong with Xander, because that was normal behaviour for guys in my book (aka according to what I saw at school, etc).

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I totally get that--it's actually why I find him specifically so creepy: because his behavior is the kind I've seen most of in my life.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Yeah I overlooked a lot when it came to Xander when I was first watching Bts as a teenager and taking at face value the show's framing of him as a good and decent guy, but as an adult the character turned me off more and I couldn't understand what the writers were trying to say with him. A big deal was made about him being a role model for the men in the audience because he loved strong women and was happy to play a supportive role but, while he certainly found himself sexually attracted to strong women (not a particularly revolutionary concept in my opinion), he was never happy not getting to play ~the man~. From the very beginning in Teacher's Pet he's not just fantasising about having the moves to fight alongside Buffy as her equal, he's fantasising about Buffy being a helpless female from a horror movie swooning over him coming to her rescue.

During the high school years especially I thought that the show made it blatant that he was taking his inadequacies out on Angel because he secretly longed to be that kind of alpha male and resented the way that Buffy overlooks him because he's "the nice guy". By season 4 and The Freshman he's arguably more accepting of his role of sidekick but then even that leads to him hero-worshipping Riley and shaming Buffy for not doing more to keep this once in a lifetime guy happy urgh

[diebirchen.livejournal.com]

One example: hyena = lie and deny and later hypocrisy.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

YES. That one's a huge one.

[diebirchen.livejournal.com]

He has some good qualities, but he would never make the cut as my friend.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly.

[gillo]

In short, because he believes he can control Buffy's choices in relationships because he has the Y chromosome. Angel makes the big choices for her; Xander wants to direct her love-life. Also, massive sense of entitlement summed up by his reaction to Anya/Spike in Entropy.

I don't always dislike him, but he plays "Everyman", or, rather, "Everyteenageboy" a bit too much - so many that I have taught have been living, breathing sets of double standards. In a show like this he ought to be capable of learning better, but he always gets the get out free card.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Indeed, indeed. I actually think if they'd ever had him learn and grow beyond that stuff, he would have turned out to be a character I really rooted for and appreciated. But the writers majorly let us down by never having him actually mature.

[belecrivain.livejournal.com]

Xander's failure to mature, to an unrealistic degree, was one of the the things that makes me stl angry about S6 (to the degree that I have refused to get into an ongoing television show EVER SINCE). (The other two being "magic addiction!" and Tara's death.)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Those are three good reasons.

[gillo]

The depressing thing is that I think they believed he did mature because he settled down with a good, solid job, moved out of the basement and lived alone after Hell's Bells and fulfilled all the clichés of being a "grown man", including "taking one for the team" when he lost his eye. The way he talked about Anya in Chosen, both when she was asleep and when Andrew told him she was dead actually confirmed to me that none of his essentially patriarchal assumptions had changed, but I honestly don't think the writers understood that.

:-(

Compare that to Spike's big speech in Touched - the absolute opposite of proprietorial.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I think you're absolutely right. I think the writers didn't understand a lot of things, actually, that I wish they had.

[ruuger]

"Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered", anyone? He was basically trying to drug a woman with magic to have sex with him!

eta: Huh, LJ ate the second half of my comment for some reason. Anyway...

I'm searcing my LJ comment notification, because I'm pretty sure I remember a long comment thread in a meta about Xander's fail...

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

YES. That episode kills me.

I ended up finding one that worked for me, but I appreciate it!

[kikimay]

I feel so not alone in my Xander disliking. Please continue.

*nothing smart to add to the conversation*
*adds comment anyway*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Haha! It's always nice to know you're not alone! :D

[angearia.livejournal.com]

What does that even mean "cultural sexism"? Culture is communicated via individuals, and in the case of Buffy, the cultural sexism is EMBODIED in one Xander Harris.

I.e., he's absorbed all that toxic cultural sexism and has proceeded to spew his grossness on the women in his life.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I completely agree. I'm not sure what he means either.

[elisi]

You could say that Xander is a metaphor for Cultural Sexism? Like how Riley is a metaphor for male privilege.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

That is great! I hadn't thought of that before!

[elisi]

It's Buffy. Everything is symbolism! :)

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Nothing useful to add - except the the question itself made little sense to me. :)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I totally get that. The way it was phrased confused me too.