a really really random question for people who are more widely read in buffyverse fandom than i am

[lirazel]

Although my flist might not be the best place to ask this:

Are there many Buffy/Angel fics where Buffy and Spike are really good friends? Because I was thinking the other day about how much I enjoy writing Angel as a friend to Buffy and Spike in my future 'verse, and how much I enjoy whenever he pops up in other people's stuff in a similar way. And I was wondering if the other side of the "shipper debate" (whatever--like what you like! I don't care! Am I supposed to get upset about it or something? I don't!) enjoys writing a Buffy-Spike friendship in the same way. Anybody know?

Comments

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

leni_ba regularly writes in a couple of 'verses where this is the case. At least one of them is a long-term Angelus/Buffy 'verse, which might be slightly different. In one of 'em Spike is with Dawn (or will be at some point, I think). She posts in open_on_sunday almost weekly.

I've read some Spike/Xander and Xander/Angel wherein the vamp guys are friends and/or allies, too.

"Angel/Buffy with friend Spike" fic works pretty well if Buffy and Angel work out their little problem and get their relationship on track before Spike falls in love with Buffy. Though I'm pretty sure that I've seen some post-NFA where Angel and Spike retain their relationship, regardless of Buffy choosing one or the other. It's hard to smooth over the Buffy-friendship for the odd-vamp out, though it can be done.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, I've read some of her Buffy/Angelus stuff! She's good! Though I have to admit that the idea of Spike/Dawn squicks me. Eeeck!

Up until S8, I didn't really have any problem imagining Buffy and Angel as "just friends," though I knew it would take some work to get there. Post-S8 is a whole 'nother story, though, unfortunately.

[next_to_normal]

I have no idea, but I'm curious to know the answer! I'm a big fan of Spuffy with friend!Angel, too.

(I imagine that a "whatever--like what you like! I don't care!" attitude is probably required for "friends with your ex" fic, haha.)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you've done some fun stuff with it! I knew you shared my fondness! :D

(I imagine that a "whatever--like what you like! I don't care!" attitude is probably required for "friends with your ex" fic, haha.)

Probably so!

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty fond of Angel being a friend to a future Spuffy. The other way around, I'm not as familiar with (because I'd have to be reading Bangel, and... yeah... no). Anaross has done it - but it's a pretty bittersweet relationship and I don't know if you could actually call Buffy and Spike "friends". There's that fic I tried to find a while ago in which Buffy is married to Angel (shanshued, I think, don't really remember) and Spike is a close friend to the couple. However, he and Buffy have a bit more complicated relationship than what Angel is aware of, and it's a pretty sad story. No one ever was able to tell me whose it was or the title, so I haven't been able to reread and refresh my memory.

[worldwasasong.livejournal.com]

There's one I'd love to read! Even if it is sad. What's the Anaross fic called? That sounds good too.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Yeah, everyone who's seen me mention it wants to read it. Wish I could find it. I went to Anaross's LJ site (which is apparently all she has now, I couldn't find a link to her website), but without actually reading a substantial amount of all the longer fics, I couldn't identify which one it was. Sorry. Of course, she's so good, working your own way through her fics in hopes of finding that one wouldn't be a serious chore. :)

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Found the Anaross fic (I think) It's Ransomed, something, Forgiven, something. It's here: http://anaross.livejournal.com/22350.html

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

However, he and Buffy have a bit more complicated relationship than what Angel is aware of, and it's a pretty sad story. No one ever was able to tell me whose it was or the title, so I haven't been able to reread and refresh my memory.

That sounds interesting (if sad) and something you'd only want to check out in the right mood! If you stumble on it again, though, I'd love to find out the title!

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

So would I! I tried both Seeking Spike and the BSV seeking a fic forum thread, but not even a nibble. I know I read it quite a long while ago, I just don't know where. It was heartbreaking, as I recall. Just three people who love each other too much to want anyone to get hurt. Or maybe two people who love each other and the third one too much. Angel's kind of oblivious. He just thinks of Spike as a close friend of his and Buffy's.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, that sounds so deliciously angsty! I'll have to keep my eyes open for it.

[kerry-220.livejournal.com]

You know, that could be Prophecy and Warmth by TheBear, but it ends Spuffy (after much tragedy)

http://spikeluver.com/SpuffyRealm/viewstory.php?sid=3960

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Oh no. P & W is one of my favorite fics. That title and author, I remember. But thanks for trying.:) That wasn't it. The fic I'm trying to find is actually quite short. It's just Spike and Buffy after they get out of bed and as he gets ready to leave again (he works for the Council, I think, and goes wherever they send him to deal with crises) and then a short bit that includes Angel after he gets home and Spike is saying good-bye to both of them.

[rahirah]

I've seen a few - I wouldn't call myself enough of a B/A expert to say whether there are many, but my impression is that it's small but significant number. (I think there's a subset of those that tend to pair Spike up with Dawn.) Most of the ones I've read are pretty short, set post-Chosen, and the main focus is either upon making it clear that Buffy never loved Spike romantically, or upon Buffy and/or Spike's realization that a romantic relationship between them is undesirable or impossible, and Spike often either bows out when he sees the inevitable, or acts as matchmaker.

[worldwasasong.livejournal.com]

Let me amend what I said to - yes, actually, I have seen a few with Spike/Dawn and B/S. There's a pretty good post-Chosen series called the Boston 'verse that's B/A with some not bad S/D in there too.

[rahirah]

I'm thinking cornerofmadness and evil_little_dog did some along those lines at some point, but COM had a shanshued Spike who was going bald, and that totally threw me out of the story, considering JM's still-pretty-luxurious locks. *g*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that sort of thing really defeats the point for me. What I want to see is what a B/A-er thinks an actual friendship between them would be like. Most of the stuff I've seen demonizes (heh) Spike pretty strongly, so I wanted to see if there was a different reaction. Oh, well!

or acts as matchmaker.

My first impulse on reading this was to laugh hysterically. I just...can't see that happening? Like, ever? Interesting though.

[rahirah]

I've seen some B/S writers do the same with Angel, and it doesn't strike me as terribly realistic that way, either. Even if Angel and Buffy are over, man, the BAGGAGE...

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Seriously! There's just too much going on there for something like that.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Oh man. I try really hard not to make Angel a total asshole in post-Chosen B/S fic, on the "do not bash" principle. I want them to be friends, if only so Buffy can have somebody to commiserate with about Spike's frequently less than grown-up behavior. But it feels like a lie, Peewee. *shakes head*

[rahirah]

I had Angel get his assholishness out early, so I'm free to write him being non-adversarial in later years (and of course my Angel has other things going on in his life - I haven't written much about it, but he's really busy off in L.A.) but it takes years for him and Spike to develop the prickly familial relationship they finally end up with, and even longer for him and Buffy to reconcile. And oddly, I think what they end up with is more familial than anything else, too. They will always love one another, but they can't be in love again - and Spike was right, they can never be friends, either. But if either one ever needs help, the other one would move mountains to give it.

[spiralleds.livejournal.com]

or acts as matchmaker.

My first impulse on reading this was to laugh hysterically. I just...can't see that happening? Like, ever? Interesting though.

Mmm, my fic, Serendipity (http://archiveofourown.org/works/78148) likely fits that category, sort of.

And I suppose Chrisleeoctave's Fair Play (http://archiveofourown.org/works/107184) would too. Which is funniest, yet sweetest story where pegging plays a central role.

[worldwasasong.livejournal.com]

As a fan both both B/A and B/S - I *think* I've seen a fic where Spike is Buffy's friend. But it's pretty rare because of his unique level of his devotion to her. Generally if they attempt to be friends in fic, he's still in love with her and he ends up leaving. I think the Angel friendship angle in B/S works particularly well because they were long over by the end of the show and a friendship seems realistic, while it's hard to imagine Spike ever being over Buffy even if she wasn't into him.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I think the Angel friendship angle in B/S works particularly well because they were long over by the end of the show and a friendship seems realistic, while it's hard to imagine Spike ever being over Buffy even if she wasn't into him.

I agree with this. However, I'd love to see it if it existed, because I know there are lots of Spike/Buffy fans who love Angel and want them to all be friends, and I haven't been exposed to the opposite very often, you know? I kind of want to see what a B/A shipper would think such a friendship would look like.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Fair Play by ChrisleeOctaves is very funny: Spike teaches Buffy how to have sex with Angel :)
http://www.octavesoftheheart.com/octaves/fairplay.htm