I'm having thinky thoughts again. Someone should really stop me.

[lirazel]

I want to have a discussion. About casting on TV. Really, really great casting, that is.

This discussion is inspired by my current affection for whoever it was who cast Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock, because he is so ridiculously, insanely right in that part that it sends me into spasms of delight whenever I think about him.

So what I'm talking about is those actors who are just married to the right material right off the bat: they come in and instantly they just work as the character, selling it immediately and becoming so one with the writing that they create someone real. Who make you sit back and want to write love letters to the casting director (if you're me, anyways, and I'm well aware I'm a bit crazy) thanking them for finding this perfect person for just this perfect role.

This isn't, though, just about good acting. For instance, neither Sarah Michelle Gellar nor James Marsters would be on my list, despite being really wonderful. Smidge wouldn't be there because even though I think she's fantastic in her role as Buffy, I don't think she's so ultimately, awesomely perfect that I can't hardly stand it right from the very beginning--it took me a while to feel that way about her. JM wouldn't be there because that role really grew up around him--he was supposed to be killed off rather quickly, and they just kept bringing him back and giving him more things to do, writing specifically for him, because he was great. But that, to me, is more the show lucking out getting someone so talented than the casting director finding someone indispensable for the role. The same might be said of Enver Gjokaj (whom you all know I adore), I can't decide: the nature of that role was to constantly change, so maybe he is a good example? I'm not really sure.

As another example, I wouldn't put Gillian Jacobs as Britta on Community on the list, either, because even though she's great and is becoming pretty iconic in my mind, I feel like the show floundered a bit trying to figure out who she was. Eventually it did, and it was a glorious thing to behold, but it was a bit wobbly at first. And any actor for whom a character was created isn't going to work either, like Rob Lowe on The West Wing. Or like Christina Hendricks on Mad Men--they changed the part to fit the actress, and thank goodness they did.

Anyways, this is obviously subjective and all based on who just pings for me as a viewer, and I'm not quite sure that I can concretely define what would earn someone a spot on my list. It's like pornography--I know it when I see it.

But here are the people who just popped into my head in the last ten minutes:

- Connie Britton as Tami on Friday Night Lights (a show with some really fabulous casting all-around)
- James Callis as Gaius Baltar on Battlestar Galactica
- Richard Schiff and Allison Janney as Toby and CJ on The West Wing (another show whose casting is so fabulous it seems a shame to single anybody out)
- Leighton Meester as Blair on Gossip Girl (yes, really. Whatever else can be said about that show--most of it bad--girlfriend is Blair Waldorf)
- Danny Pudi on as Abed Community (yeah, there's another one of those wonderfully well-cast shows)
- Hannah Murray and Nicholas Hoult as Cassie and Tony Skins (okay, I need to quit naming shows that just have really strong casting, okay?)
- Hugh Laurie as House on House

Anybody else want to play? Remember, we're talking TV--if we expand it to movies, too, the lists would be endless!

Comments

[ahigheroctave.livejournal.com]

Wait, so AJ and Richard but NOT Bradley Whitford or Martin Sheen for the West Wing...or for that matter, Emily Proctor as Ainsley Hayes? I love CJ but I'd choose her over it anytime.

Ian Somerhalder as Damon Salvatore also would make my list. Could not have been more perfectly cast. I'll have to mull over the rest for a while.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

It was really hard for me to pick for The West Wing, but Martin Sheen couldn't be on my list because originally the part was going to be much smaller with the president perhaps not showing up at all, and they only expanded the role when they cast Sheen, so that doesn't match my criteria. And I think Bradley Whitford is awesome, but I just wanted to pick no more than two from each cast, and I'm more a CJ and Toby fan (Schiff's performances, especially are so subtle and underrated; he blows me away). And yeah, I adore Emily Proctor--world's biggest Ainsley fan, right here!

Ian grew on me and I adore him now, but I don't know if it was his performance or the writing for Damon that didn't grab me from the start. But like I say, this is all entirely dependent upon your feelings as a viewer.

[madcap-shiny.livejournal.com]

Okay, so this is very predictable and expected coming from me, but - Summer Glau as Cameron. She owned that role so, so hard when it would be extremely easy to underact (or even overact) as a robot learning to deal with emotion. Everything about her screamed machine without being soulless about it, and she could make the tiniest facial tic speak volumes about what Cameron was feeling, in her not-supposed-to-have-feelings way.

I also feel the urge to say Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring on VMars, but that one I think I have to consider some more.

(I would also make a case for Arielle Kebbel as Lexi on TVD, if she had lasted more than ONE GODDAMN EPISODE, DAMON SALVATORE, but I guess some things we'll just never know. *huffs*)

[next_to_normal]

WORD on KBell. I kind of think Jason Dohring is more in the JM category, though. I've always assumed that his role was intended to be smaller and more nemesis-y, and it's only because of the fantastic chemistry with KB that Logan ended up not only being such a major player but also Veronica's epic boyfriend. But maybe I'm projecting Spuffy onto them, lol.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I KNEW IT! :D

Yes, you are the person I specifically thought of while writing this up, knowing exactly who your first answer would be!

OMG LEXI. LET US NOT TALK OF HER. I WILL GET TEARY-EYED!

[next_to_normal]

Hmm, I'd have to give Kyle Chandler equal props. Not only that he just IS Coach Taylor, but the way he and CB work together, they absolutely sell it as a couple as well.

Also maybe Jon Hamm as Don Draper? Especially since that seems like such a difficult role to play, because he as a character is playing a role, and he just gets it right from the first shot.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I agree about Kyle. Connie's always the first one I think of, but he is so fantastically great, too. And I need to catch up on that show.

I considered Jon Hamm but decided he didn't work for me personally. But! I knew his name would pop up on this list!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Smidge wouldn't be there because even though I think she's fantastic in her role as Buffy, I don't think she's so ultimately, awesomely perfect that I can't hardly stand it.

Aw, see, she's "ultimately, awesomely perfect that I can't hardly stand it" for me, though. :)

I agree about JM and how the role grew up around him, but I think from the very first moment Smidge was on film, she was Buffy. I think it was more that the writing got better in order to best display what Smidge had going, but it was just always there for me. I dunno.

I'd have to agree above that Emily Proctor as Ainsley Hayes is sheer perfection. From the very first scene, I was so utterly delighted and in love with her. Ainsley's barely in the show, but her character is so clear and vibrant--and after seeing Proctor on CSI: Miami (who's so blah and meh and do they even require acting on that show?), it's just that she perfectly brought Ainsley to life.

I think Kristen Bell as Veronica Mars is a great example, too. Love her!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Aw, I wasn't clear! She definitely becomes that way for me as the show goes on, but she didn't just grab me by the throat at the very beginning. I thought she was very good, but I felt like she more grew into the role than anything. But I love her lots!

I think it was more that the writing got better in order to best display what Smidge had going, but it was just always there for me.

I can see that. It feels a bit different for me, though, perhaps because I didn't connect to her right away? It took me a while?

I LOVE AINSLEY. Don't you just love how she makes me burst into capslocks? Honestly, I could have had any number of TWW cast members on there. I've never seen her in anything else, but I'm sad she's blah on that show, which I understand isn't very good.

I think that Alona Tal tried out for Veronica? I like her fine, but can you imagine her in that role? NO NO NO. KBELL ALL THE WAY. Also: Keith Mars. Perfect.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

My problem with Smidge is that way before she was Buffy, she was Kendal Hart for me, and it took me quite some time to see Buffy instead of Kendal.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

The thing about Smidge is you didn't realize how perfect she was for the role until she dealt with the tough stuff - in Welcome to the Hellmouth and The Harvest, you could have given KBell's VMars (I like all these nickname things) a stake, and they would have done fine. It isn't until Prophecy Girl that you realize what sets the two apart: Veronica/KBell gets more snarky, more abrasive when pain comes, Buffy/Smidge wears the pain on her sleeve before picking up her stake and doing her duty/facing the Master. This is what makes iconic Buffy iconic - the fact that she shows pain, and it wasn't until the pain came that you realized how perfect the actress was for the part. THEN she became so "ultimately, awesomely perfect that I can't hardly stand it" for me, not from the get go.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

John Hamm as Don Draper on Mad Men.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I knew his name would pop up! I didn't connect with him emotionally, though I admired him from the beginning, so he wouldn't be on my list, but I totally understand why he's on others'!

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

I just want to put about half of the cast of Mad Men on this list:
Elisabeth Moss as Peggy, John Slatterly as Roger, Christina Hendricks as Joan, and lord help me, Vincent Kartheiser as Pete Campbell.

Also, I have to say absolute yes to Kristen Bell and Jason Dohring.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

ROGER. YES. The whole cast is fantastic (and I can't believe I didn't think of Vincent!) but I just adoreadoreadoreadore Roger's character.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I think what kicks it for me in the case of Mad Men (Elisabeth Moss, Christina Hendricks, and Vincent Kartheiser) is that I've seen them in other roles (remember when Elisabeth played young Louise in Bette Midler's Gypsy? Long before she was even Zoey Bartlet!), but those other roles are completely eclipsed by the work they're doing now. Even Saffron seems kinda blah in comparison with Joan when played by Christina Hendricks. The same thing can be said of Alison Brie on Community: she is perfect for Annie, but on Mad Men, she's pretty blah as Trudy, which makes the Annie role the iconic one for me.

[blackfrancine.livejournal.com]

Wait. One more: Nelsan Ellis as Lafayette on True Blood. No one else could be Layfayette as far as I'm concerned.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes! Whenever I think of him, I think of the AIDS burger scene, and you just know that no one else would ever have delivered that scene as perfectly.

I'd probably say Ryan Kwanten as Jason, too.

[next_to_normal]

Ooh, another one: Lauren Graham as Lorelai Gilmore.

[brunettepet.livejournal.com]

This was the role I was going to tout. She captured Lorelai's vulnerability and charm and backbone and need to be independent perfectly. Kelly Bishop as her mother was also perfectly cast.

[crackers4jenn.livejournal.com]

- Joshua Jackson as PACEY WITTER; BEST EVER!

- I'd argue Katee Sackhoff = Kara Thrace just as much as James Callis = Gaius

- Steve Carell as Michael Scott (NOBODY else could play that character and make him likable.)

- NPH as Barney Stinson

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

NPH as Barney came to my mind instantly, because in Hollywood NO ONE would have expected a gay man to sell womanizer Barney so well.

And Katee as Kara was the other iconic role I believed from the outset that no one else could play her.

Upthread, people were talking about True Blood, and I really think they could have found a better Sookie, one who could have played the role and made me like her instead of constantly be annoyed with her.

Then there's roles like Liz Lemon, who is essentially Tina Fey. I absolutely adore the character because I absolutely adore the actress, and the actress is pretty much playing herself. This is an iconic role that doesn't count.

[pennydrdful.livejournal.com]

Hmm.. I agree with a lot of the above, and add in a couple more:

Emily Deschanel as Temperance Brennan (Bones)
Charisma Carpenter as Cordelia (on that one show the kids are crazy for)
Stephanie Romanov as Lilah
Mary McDonnell as Laura Roslin (Battlestar - I mean, she put him out the airlock!)

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Um, yes. To all of those. (Less so to Bones because I havne't seen so much of it.) Definitely.

[ohwaluvusbab.livejournal.com]

Word to all your choices. Except FNL, because I've only seen two episodes of that. But I shall trust your opinion.

I'd actually agree about SMG. Unpopular opinion ahoy - I actually think she's a better actress in the later seasons of BtVS. She's always been exceptional at THE PAAIIIIIN, but I feel like her feel for the subtleties and nuances of a scene just got better over time. I see the end of Amends, and then I watch Buffy's "I don't see the point" monologue in The Gift, and... there's no comparison.

I'd definitely put Ian Somerhalder on the list for Damon. I knew he took some time for you, but from the get-go I thought he had the best understanding of his character out of the cast. It's the subtle things like how over-the-top he is when posturing around Stefan; his delivery of lines like "None of this matters to me. None of it" that barely reveal how little control he has over his emotions; his micro-expressions when Elena slaps him, or when Stefan tries to insist he can see his humanity... Obviously, I could go on all day, but suffice it to say, I think the guy nails it. :)

I'd say Eliza for Faith as well. Say what you will about Eliza's acting chops, but she got Faith, from the get-go. No performance of hers has been as nuanced and powerful since that one.

Vincent K. for Pete Campbell, absotively. Again, he 100% gets the character, and I honestly don't know who else but him would be able to pull Pete fucking Campbell off.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna argue for Smidge here. The subtlety and quiet grief Buffy has in the later seasons would be really, really wrong for early!seasons Buffy. And the OTT end scene to Amends pretty much kills me every time for Buffy's face, her tears and the way her voice carries pain when she can barely say the words, "how you can hurt me so much" and "I know what you did because you did it to me."

Buffy in the early seasons was bouncy with 99% less pain. But the fact that that 1% of pain was so crystal clear from the beginning is important for me. For Buffy, in the beginning, it's not about oozing pain through her pores with every breath she takes, because Buffy isn't in pain like that, but it's about vulnerability beyond the perky and the harsh denial. And all that Buffy needs to be, all that Buffy is then, is there from the get go.

I dunno. I think it's fair to say Smidge got better as time went on, but I don't think this post is about an actor getting better, is it? Because I think Charisma Carpenter fits this ideal and frankly, I think she got worse as time went on (see: end of Season 3 and all of Season 4). I kinda think Charisma was only good at playing exactly Cordy--which means she's perfect for Cordy, but she's a bit lacking in other areas.

I remember some commentary about Welcome to the Hellmouth specifically the scene with the Principal and it's focus on how SMG's eyes go so wide as she's rambling and she makes herself adorable while awkward. That vulnerability again, that added depth. We have Kristy Swanson playing Buffy and then we have SMG and I think from the get go, the depth and vulnerability were there for SMG while with Kristy it just... wasn't. SMG outdid Kristy in the Valley Girl speak and the rambly at superspeed, but she did it with that look in her eyes like she just didn't want to be hurt and the way her eyes emoted compassion for others.

I'm gonna stop rambling now. I think pretty much no one agrees with me, but I think SMG was the character from the get go and the show settled around her.

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

Four words: Charisma. Carpenter. Cordelia. Chase.

I hope you don't mind me journalstalking after your lovely comments on my 30 days posts; I added you.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

She's so fantastic, isn't she? Sooooo much love for her.

I don't mind at all! Welcome!

[elisi]

I've skimmed through the comments, and apparently no one has mentioned Matt Smith??? Who was apparently cast because of this exact thing you're talking about. (I'm sure I can hunt down clips/interviews with the Moff flailing about Matt walking through the audition door and just getting it to a degree no one else did.)

And now I wish I had one of those 'I'm the Doctor' icons from the rooftop scene. :)

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I honestly thought about Matt Smith, but the Doctor has been played by so many other actors that (I hadn't watched) I was sure.

[ava-leigh-fitz.livejournal.com]

MATT SMITH. CHARISMA CARPENTER. SUMMER GLAU.

I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS ON THESE PEOPLE'S PERFECTION LAUREN. SO MANY FEELINGS. The others have probably been well covered because the Buffyverse is so beloved so let me talk about my boy Matt here for a second. Capslock ahoy.

OKAY. SO LET ME RAMBLE ABOUT HOW MATTHEW ROBERT SMITH IS PERFECTION. He came off the back of arguably one of the most popular Doctors in Who history and with all my Ten baggage aside, I will always rave about how Tennant managed to take the role over from an already astounding performance by Christopher Eccleston (oh Nine, my love is endless). So yes, Matt arrived on the scene with a new Doctor after four years of Tennant making that role his. And then Matt eclipsed him. From the second he crawled out of the TARDIS he made that role, Eleven his own. I loved that at the start he kept a few of Ten's mannerisms because Eleven is literally not used to his body yet. THIS IS THE PORTION OF THE COMMENT WHERE I DEVOTE MYSELF TO TALKING ABOUT MATT'S PHYSICALITY AKA MY FAVOURITE THING ABOUT HIM. WHEN HE'S THE DOCTOR, HE PHYSICALLY BECOMES HIM. HIS BEARING CHANGES, THE WAY HE HOLDS HIMSELF. HE STANDS DIFFERENTLY, HE USES HIS HANDS DIFFERENTLY. I LOVE THAT HE GAVE ELEVEN ALL THESE LITTLE PHYSICAL QUIRKS, LIKE THE HANDS THAT DON'T STOP MOVING, TO THE TWIRLS HE DOES WHEN HE WALKS, TO THE WAY HE IGNORES ANY KIND OF PERSONAL SPACE WITH ANYONE. IT'S JUST, PERFECTION. And I'm made even more aware of when I remembered Benedict Cumberbatch was offered the role and I just went "No" because I literally could not see Eleven as anyone else. He couldn't be anyone else because it wouldn't work, it would be similar but it would be an entirely different viewing experience because Matt brings so much to the role. He managed to embody the process of relearning your body and your personality perfectly and from there he built this amazing character out of the writing and his own personal feelings and just, I could actually talk about this for days. I won't. But I could.

So yeah. Matt Smith.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT HIM. OMG LOVE.

I totally love to hear about your feelings. Yay!

YES YES YES YES YES YES PHYSICALITY YES.

I LOVE THIS COMMENT. SO MUCH.

[snickfic]

If we're talking about BtVS, then: Anthony Stewart Head. All the way. Out of everyone, he's the one whom I never noticed acting. He just was Giles, start to finish, which especially meant a lot in the beginning when the rest of the show was still finding its feet. Spike is the reason I love this show, but Giles is the reason I got far enough to ever find Spike in the first place.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

He is most excellent. But I'm afraid that my Giles!love took a huge hit in the later seasons, and since those are the ones I most frequently rewatch, there's a bit of a bitter aftertaste in my responses to him. Which makes me very sad, because he started out so wonderful.