Fandom sexism really is a big deal. Gabrielleabelle's post was mostly about that and I agreed with her.
But this "man pain" thing...I just disagree with it being associated with "men" at all. I don't think there's anything gendered about the pain that the author describes. Maybe because there are generally more male protagonists than female protagonists, it's more often associated with men.
Both Adama and Starbuck were given butt loads of protagonist privilege, more than anyone else in a show that was rife with characters exhibiting appalling behaviors and not having to compensate for it. Truly, to top everyone else on that show in that regard was a feat.)
Yes. I've wondered at times whether this was deliberate. At TWOP (and I almost never go there), Jacob (one of the few reviewers who I think tries to be even-handed and has interesting, if often very esoteric, things to say) seems to think that the characters' egocnetrism is something we're supposed to see behind--that it's not necessarily that they're bad people but that they are definitely blinded by their power. Jane Espenson's "Dirty Hands," where Adama lines up Tyrol's wife and some others to be shot, seems to want us to go there. And certainly it's 100% deliberate in Baltar's case, which shows that the writers are sensitive to the idea. But there isn't that much other evidence (that I can think of) that the characters' egocentrism is really MEANT to be a big deal.
And that's part of the reason why I can't get behind some stuff--we were supposed to, I guess, cheer when Tyrol strangled Tory (I haven't really been able to come up with another explanation for the way that scene was executed, and the way no one called Tyrol on his peace-destroying rage), but it didn't seem like Tory was all that much worse (if worse at all) than the vast majority of the characters on the show, and less deserving of a chance to explain herself.
As I said before, I do think that some protagonist privilege is okay. A story can genuinely not follow every single character in a story world. The deaths of the people on the Olympic Carrier happening to give Lee angst in 33 doesn't bother me. But the way the entire Lee/Kara/Sam/Dee stuff was done mostly to give Kara angst, and, crucially, that she didn't seem to feel that bad about it (whereas Lee, to his credit, at least *felt really bad*) is a bigger issue. I wonder if this is because the former was a momentary decision, and one unavoidable in war, and the latter was an ongoing thing?
Anyway. Probably part of the reason Baltar is likeable (to me, anyway) is that his narcissism is called out so thoroughly for comedy, whereas most of the other characters' isn't.
And the Gwen thing is baffling to me. Might as well complain about Dennis the Ghost or the millionaire of Season 1 AtS not being made regulars.
Yeah. And why did Willow get so many more scenes than Larry? It's because Willow has her WOMAN PAIN, I know it!
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Fandom sexism really is a big deal. Gabrielleabelle's post was mostly about that and I agreed with her.
But this "man pain" thing...I just disagree with it being associated with "men" at all. I don't think there's anything gendered about the pain that the author describes. Maybe because there are generally more male protagonists than female protagonists, it's more often associated with men.
Both Adama and Starbuck were given butt loads of protagonist privilege, more than anyone else in a show that was rife with characters exhibiting appalling behaviors and not having to compensate for it. Truly, to top everyone else on that show in that regard was a feat.)
Yes. I've wondered at times whether this was deliberate. At TWOP (and I almost never go there), Jacob (one of the few reviewers who I think tries to be even-handed and has interesting, if often very esoteric, things to say) seems to think that the characters' egocnetrism is something we're supposed to see behind--that it's not necessarily that they're bad people but that they are definitely blinded by their power. Jane Espenson's "Dirty Hands," where Adama lines up Tyrol's wife and some others to be shot, seems to want us to go there. And certainly it's 100% deliberate in Baltar's case, which shows that the writers are sensitive to the idea. But there isn't that much other evidence (that I can think of) that the characters' egocentrism is really MEANT to be a big deal.
And that's part of the reason why I can't get behind some stuff--we were supposed to, I guess, cheer when Tyrol strangled Tory (I haven't really been able to come up with another explanation for the way that scene was executed, and the way no one called Tyrol on his peace-destroying rage), but it didn't seem like Tory was all that much worse (if worse at all) than the vast majority of the characters on the show, and less deserving of a chance to explain herself.
As I said before, I do think that some protagonist privilege is okay. A story can genuinely not follow every single character in a story world. The deaths of the people on the Olympic Carrier happening to give Lee angst in 33 doesn't bother me. But the way the entire Lee/Kara/Sam/Dee stuff was done mostly to give Kara angst, and, crucially, that she didn't seem to feel that bad about it (whereas Lee, to his credit, at least *felt really bad*) is a bigger issue. I wonder if this is because the former was a momentary decision, and one unavoidable in war, and the latter was an ongoing thing?
Anyway. Probably part of the reason Baltar is likeable (to me, anyway) is that his narcissism is called out so thoroughly for comedy, whereas most of the other characters' isn't.
And the Gwen thing is baffling to me. Might as well complain about Dennis the Ghost or the millionaire of Season 1 AtS not being made regulars.
Yeah. And why did Willow get so many more scenes than Larry? It's because Willow has her WOMAN PAIN, I know it!