lirazel | I am bored at work.

And also, I am writing dark future-fic Spuffy! Heh. We'll see if anything comes of it.
My favorite! oooh!

Because I am surfing the glittery tide of nostalgia this week, Snape?

Well, hopefully I'll finish it and it'll actually be good! We'll see!

Ha!

1. Snape/Sinistra as per Lamentations of a Starry Eyed Twit, which remains the most hilarious fic I've ever read. I ship them soooo hard!

2. Uh...uh...Snape/Narcissa, I guess. If I really cared. I find him more interesting on his own, y'know?

3. Snape/Harry - Aside from the underaged thing, they were total jerks to each other! And not in a Foe Yay sort of way (I'll never see the appeal of Harry/Draco, but I can understand why some would), either. Ugh.

4. I think the whole Lilly thing was stupid. He was so much more interesting when he had motives beyond "I wubbed her and I want to see her eeeeeyes again!" I like to pretend that he chose to do good for more complicated reasons.

5. James Potter. They were both awful to each other, and even if Lilly had never existed, there still would have been genuine antipathy there.

Lamentations reference!!! Oh man, my high school glory still lives on! Auriga! I miss that crazy broad! Sometimes I get these dizzy ambitious daydreams of actually going back and finishing that someday. And then I realize that I am terribly, terribly lazy.

End comment hijacking!

Wait. What? THAT WAS YOU? I fangirl you leik woah! You have no idea! ARE YOU SERIOUS?

We seem to be doing this lately. There's a nice poetry to it.

That was me!!! Hahaha, that fic is the one true glory I have accomplished in life thus far.

I know, right?! Oh, zany from-Ff.N-to-lj adventures!

Bwahaha, YOUR ICON!

I am so blown away by this news! I adore that fic with all of my heart! And most of your fics, honestly. Wow, you were prolific!

That icon is part of the greatest icon posts known to man.

... whoa. Those actually are the greatest icon posts known to man. Oh, Twilight hate, how is it that you NEVER GET LESS AWESOME!

I KNOW! I had the hardest time in the world choosing this icon, and I still want to go back and get more ALL THE TIME.

Hahaha, I think that when I switch back to icons that are not, ya know, strictly Dollhouse related, I am gonna have to go for "Twilight's a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." It makes me want to weep a little bit with its rightness, that icon!

I credit myself for bringing you two together...

♥

You're our very own Yenta! Or Emma Woodhouse! Or whichever matchmaking character you want!

I am just so amused by this whole thing. I really had no idea. And it's all because of you!

Concurred! ♥ I bow before your superior lj matchmaking skillz! (Yeah, that's right, skillz with a z, such are the heights of your awesome!)

How about Rory Gilmore?

Okay!

1. Rory/Jess. Yes. No other competition.

2. Rory/Logan. I guess. I think he's mostly a condescending ass, but he got to the point where he could sometimes act mature and care about her. Plus, I'm not a huge fan of Rory herself there at the end, so they kind of deserve each other. Ooops!

3. Rory/Dean. I always thought they were ill-suited (he never really got her), but the sleeping-together-when-he-was-married thing sealed the deal. I'm still angry about that.

4. I'm not a fan of where she ended up going in the later seasons. I still think that her reaction to what Logan's dad says was a complete overraction and ridiculous.

5. Kirk. Do I even need to say why? ;)

Big yes to 3 and 4. Rory was so level headed and then she made out of character move after out of character move. She was no saint, but she wasn't stupid.

She loved Kirk. She just didn't love love him.

Rory was so level headed and then she made out of character move after out of character move. She was no saint, but she wasn't stupid.
Exactly. Exactly.

Oh, yes. She definitely cared about him. One thing I love about that show is its obsession with place. The big romance of the show, in my opinion, is the one between the Gilmore girls and Stars Hollow. And Kirk is part of that.

Oh god yes, number 3! To this day, I have "hating dean" as a LJ interest because I could not stand him. I added it when season 4 was airing, but when I've rewatched since, I've found that he's pretty repugnant from day one. This might be the adultery and general assishness of later years coloring my view, but I don't think I'm that compromised, he really is a jerk all along.

And I just don't get all the Supernatural fans catching up and cooing all over "baby Jared". Don't they see what an ass he is?!

Um, sorry about spewing that all over your comments. Let's just say I have Dean issues.

Spew away! I have them, too. He was definitely a jerk, and on top of that, he was so all about the patriarchy. He wanted Rory to only ever talk with/be with him--jealousy is not attractive (unless you're Logan Echolls--curse you, Logan Echolls, for screwing up my moral compass!)--and to play the girly role (remember the one with Donna Reed?). And he didn't understand any of the things that were important to Rory. He was an ass about Tristan, he was an ass about Jess, and then he went and got married out of spite! The whole thing just infuriates me!

I think what kills a 'ship or character for me is possessiveness, not jealousy. Being jealous that the one you love is into someone else? That's fine. As long as you don't start thinking you own her and have the right to dictate who she spends time with, what she does, who she talks to. And Logan doesn't fall into the possessive category. Dean, on the other hand? Worst case of I-am-dating-you-and-therefore-I-now-get-to-decide-your-every-move there ever was.

I was never going to like Dean, but the way he treated his wife when he was sleeping around behind her back is what was my final nail in the coffin when it came to Dean. And the reason why I can't understand ANYONE liking him.

I've been trying to come up with a character for you, but I realize I don't know you well enough yet. Maybe Veronica Mars, since we're (tangentially) on the subject?

I understand the distinction, and I think you're right. Jealousy is a very natural reaction, and even though if there's nothing to be jealous of you should work to control it, it's still such a human reaction. But YESYESYES re: possessiveness.

Mostly, I resent Logan for making me think it's hella sexy that he beats everybody up all the time whenever they don't respect Veronica. I mean, I'm not into violence! But I can't help it when it's Logan!

He treated his wife like it was her fault and just acted all resentful and hateful, and I'm like WTF DUDE? You asked her to marry you! It absolutely infuriates me.

Veronica the character or a character from the show? Anything's good with me. I'm a big fan of VMars.

Take Spike at the beginning of Chosen. He's so jealous it's coming out of his ears, but him not thinking he has some claim on Buffy makes you able to see the scene in a funny light.

Veronica the character is who I meant!

Great example. Poor Spike!

Okay, then!

A. Veronica/Logan. I don't think either of them will ever find anyone else who gets them like they do (wow, that was awkward syntax). I do think they both have to do some growing up before they have a workable relationship, but...for me, they're endgame.

B. Um...Veronica/Lily, I guess. I'm not so into femslash, but I can see that happening.

C. Veronica/Dick. I never understood that pairing. There's no respect there. At all.

D. I don't really know general fandom opinions on her. But I've always been annoyed at the way she takes Wallace for granted sometimes. I know that he has a couple of lines calling her out on that (and I love those lines!), but I think she should have appreciated him more and made him more of a priority. I love their relationship, and there should have been more of it post-S1.

E. Wallace. In my opinion, he's the best friend she'll ever, ever have (besides Keith!), but she's never going to see him as anything but a brother. And that's awesome.

Topher Brink!

I am still freaking out about this revelation. I LOVE YOUR FIC.

Anyway.

1. Topher/Bennett - They were adorable and brainy and maybe they went a little overboard with the adorable, but my love of them was sealed the moment that he said that thing about having a crush on her even when he thought she was a dude! So. Funny.

2. Topher/Adelle. But in a completely platonic way. I am so invested in their relationship, and I don't even know how to categorize it. But I love it.

3. Uh...I don't really see Topher as being the kind of guy who needs to be in a relationship. As

snickfic pointed out, the world is more than interesting enough for him without romance. So I don't really care about any other pairings.

4. I hated him at first. Thought he was creepy as hell. He was Warren with Andrew's personality transplanted in. And it took me a long time to get over the need to take a shower whenever he was onscreen.

5. Ivy. Though I think he did learn to appreciate her a bit more later on, AS WELL HE SHOULD. She was awesome, but they were never going to have the patience for each other. I do like to imagine that eventually they might have become good friends, though.

Giles. I find him more flexible to ship than most of the characters, because I don't feel him committed to a particular one in the series, but that might just be me.

Edited 2010-01-27 20:11 (UTC)

Hmmm...I don't typically ship him at all, honestly, but I'll run with this!

1. Giles/Jenny. I loved their relationship. She was playful enough to get him to not take himself so seriously, and I love the way she was the one to pursue their relationship.

2. Giles/Anya. I've seen it pulled off beautifully in fic, and I like the idea of someon treating her more like an adult.

3. Any of the Core Four Scoobies. I don't ship any of them with any of the others. Ever. It squicks me.

4. There's a small part of me that's never going to forgive him for trying/wanting to kill Dawn and Spike (my two favorite not-Buffy-herself characters! OH NOES!). Dawn was about as innocent as you can get, and I resent the fact that he decides about Spike without actually having a conversation with Buffy about him. It's that lack of trust of Buffy's judgment that really bothers me. (I don't blame Robin Wood for trying to kill him, though. That made sense.)

5. Wesley. Just...no.

Edited 2010-01-27 20:19 (UTC)

I've read both Giles/Buffy and Giles/Willow stories that worked for me, but I can see how they might not work for everyone.

OTOH, I just about can't ship Xander. If it's not Cordy it can be Anya, but if it's not Anya then... I really don't care. Actually, I find that I just really don't care about Xander much, period.

I'm just profoundly uncomfortable with the idea of an authority figure--basically any figure that could be viewed as a parental one--with one of their charges...squicky. There are a few exceptions, but it's a general rule. On the other hand, I can support your Faith/Giles ship because while there's an age difference, he was never in her life the way he was with any of the Scoobies. It's not the same thing.

Exactly. I like Cordy/Xander, I like Anya and they have a few cute moments. But I don't find him interesting at all, and I don't care about his sexual/romantic life. I like him when he's being BFFs with Willow or Buffy (after he gets over the crushes), but other than that...Meh.

Oh, also, I don't hate the idea of Xander/Dawn, but I really think she deserves better. Which I realize is also not a popular opinion, but still.

I would be really interested in hearing sometime what kind of guy you think would be good for Dawn. I don't think we've ever talked about that. Not that she needs someone or anything, but just as a hypothetical sort of way.

Which I realize is also not a popular opinion, but still.

But a good one, with which I'm willing to agree. (I'm actually open to Xander growing up and maturing in fic and then getting paired with various BtVS ladies. It's purely canon!Xander that I have trouble shipping.)

Dawn. Okay. You know what, I'm just gonna quote my Yuletide recipient on this, because in the midst of a discussion on Matilda she had this to say:

I know for me and many viewers/fans, Dawn as younger-sister is really hard to shake, even though she's almost an adult by series end and can be aged up regardless, she feels like a younger-sister to me. Likewise Joyce-as-mother. We-as-viewers take the viewpoint character (Buffy)'s age to be the norm and point-of-identity... it's illogical but it's how I react to text.

Which nicely sums up my feelings about Dawn. Because she's "younger sister," I have trouble shipping her with any of the regular cast. Even though in ten years the age difference will be almost irrelevent and even though she seems to me to be nearer maturity than Xander, I still couldn't ever ship them. Even more so for Spike/Dawn, since I see them as having a much closer sibling relationship than Dawn has with Xander.

The one exception might possibly be, would you believe, Dawn/Andrew. I think

deird1's just about convinced me. (And now she's writing fic about them, too!) Her basic premise is: that they're both geeky with the potential to be good friends; that, once he falls for her, Andrew will appreciate her without letting her angst about her keyness too much (because, as Deird says, "It’s pretty hard to get all caught up in your own dramatically heart-breaking angst when the person you’re talking to will probably respond with 'Wow! Cool story. I wonder if it would work as a comic book series… And hey – can you glow?'")

But you didn't ask who I shipped her with, you asked what kind of guy I thought she needed. And... I don't really have an answer for that. I'm actually terrifically bad at coming up with the 'sort' of person a person ought to be with, especially when I don't have any previous evidence of that person in relationships to work from. Like, I can opine that Cordy's better for Xander than Anya is, but that's just a comparison between two options. I can't construct the perfect person for Xander. Or Dawn. Or myself, for that matter. It's... too abstract for me, or something.

So that was all really wordy and didn't really answer the question. Oh, well.

I profoundly don't care about Xander either. Meh. I don't know why, I just don't.

I do not understand why some people love him so much. There doesn't seem to be anything going on below the surface to me--he's not interesting enough for me to love him or hate him. Plus, whenever they play up his "normal guy" stuff in a sexual way--porn or "thinking about two women doing a spell" or whatever--it pisses me off, so I don't care about shipping him. Meh.

Veronica Mars. Go.

Dude! I just did Veronica Mars! Scroll up a couple of comments!

Pick someone else!

UGH. I missed it. 'Cause it was in a huge stream of comments, yo!

Okay. Uh.

Priya then. :D

What kind of a question is that? There's only ONE ANSWER, OBVIOUSLY.

A. Priya/Tony. THE DEFINITION OF CONQUERING LOVE, YO.

B. Priya/Topher. Meh. In a BFF kind of way. I can see Priya play WoW. And geeking out. It could happen.

C. Priya/Nolan. Obviously.

D. Are there any fandom opinions on her other than that she's adorable and that she and Victor/Tony BELONG TOGETHER? I was going to say, "She's more interesting than Caroline/Echo," but...everyone agrees on that one, don't they?

Okay: I'm not thrilled with the actual execution of the Priya/Tony relationship. Enver and Dichen are doing their best, but I don't feel like the writing's been as awesome as it was before when they were just teasing us with the idea of them.

So I write fic.

E. Boyd. Um. He's a crazy psychopath.

LOL! Well,

_jems_ got to my first choice before me... *pouts*

That's what you get for slacking off...

Hey! I was being all productive with the ficathon-y-ness. I have a life, you know! A diverse and multi-faceted internet life.

Edited 2010-01-27 22:40 (UTC)

Yeah, sometimes it must seem like I don't actually have a job....Or a life. Even though I do. Yeah.

I am super excited about the fic-a-thon (and you have the most AWESOME ICON for that! Kiki!Victor! Love!). I hope some really awesome stuff comes out of it!

I'm absurdly grateful your job lets you be on LJ! More fun for me us!

All the prompts for the ficathon are making me get crazy excited! I just want every writer in the Buffyverse ever to participate -- is that too much to ask?

I am absurdly grateful, too. Especially because it's pretty boring otherwise.

There are some fantastic prompts, definitely. I'm going to write up a thoughtful and persuasive post to get my friends who love the Buffyverse but don't participate in the fandom (and there are a lot of talented ones who fall into that category) to consider participating. I feel like it's gen-ish enough, plus with the potential for crossovers....I'm hoping to be responsible for at least one or two signing up.

Ooooh! Je t'adore for your future persuasive efforts!

Btw - I just got news TYSK was nom'd for Best Gen and Best Original Plot at No Rest for the Wicked Awards. Oh, and my Season 8 is an Epic Fairytale Meta, too. Yay! Nom nom noms!

(Is it sad that I've resigned myself to being nominated but never winning?)

ETA: I edit too much!

Edited 2010-01-27 22:53 (UTC)

YAY! I'm so pleased! And I totally agree about the originality of its plot. I feel about TYSK the way I feel about

snickfic"s "Seraph." I want it to win everything ever and everyone to love it as much as I do. And I loved your meta!

Weirdly enough, I just got a message saying that Infinitas, etc. (I can't even spell the name of my own fic!) got nominated for Best Het, and I was very surprised!

(How about I make my own awards and give them all to you? Will that make you feel better? But no: I think you totally have a chance at winning. And you deserve to.)

Should I mention that I'm writing my first real meta?

Hey, I edit all the time. It's a thing. I understand

Aw, you keep me going! I totally wrote some TYSK last night and I'm planning on writing more once I detach from the internet and stop thinking up iPad jokes. :D

Lauren!meta! Oooooo! Share! What's it about? *sits on edge of seat*

(It's a sound plan and perfectly timed because I'm starting up a Lirazel awards site where people get to vote for their favorite fics by you and only you. And then we talk about why we love it so much.

snickfic is co-modding with me.)

I just feel bad when I edit like 3x in a row.

Hahaha! Oh, Jezebel. You bring such joy to my life.

Well, I don't know that it'll be any good. It's about why I overidentify with Spike, so that when I mention that he's the only character I really identify with, I'll have somewhere to point people when they react like I'm crazy.

See, and my site will be all conflicted. Because it'll basically be your fics and

snickfic's. It's an "All TYSK and Seraph, all the time" site. And HOW WILL PEOPLE CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO? I do not know.

Oh, I'm always madly editing. It happens.

I'm not thrilled with the actual execution of the Priya/Tony relationship.

You're not the only one, actually. I've found myself completely apathetic to them since they put them together, and I know why too. The concept of two dolls falling in love was FASCINATING, but now there's zero ambiguity or complexity in the dynamic because it's taken for granted that they're the OTP, you know? I understand that there are serious time limitations, which explains why other dynamics on the show (*cough*Topher/Whiskey*cough*) have also fallen to the wayside; but it's like what we were talking about in that other thread - I wanted to see more of how Tony/Priya work *as a couple*, besides their fact that their connection conquers everything. Ah well.

/ramble.

Exactly. I wanted to see them get to know each other--really. Like, yeah, we love each other--but do they not even question that? That would pretty much blow my mind, that I'm in love with this person I can't remember. I think they should be struggling a bit. I mean, I guess Joss thinks so, too, since they aren't "together" in Epitaph One, but I need more showing, less telling.

I guess I'll just have to write loads of fic....

we love each other--but do they not even question that?

This. It's all a bit too neat for a show like Dollhouse, in which all the relationships are interestingly contorted and intrinsically doomed. I guess that Tony/Priya are supposed to be the beacons of hope though... And, yeah, their dynamic in E1 has definitely been the most interesting for me.

I just found this comment that I never responded to, and now I'm glad I waited! Because they got loads more interesting in E2, didn't they? SOME ACTUAL CONFLICT! YAY!

Oh yeah, I was considerably happy about that. Their relationship at the end was a lot more real to me at the end there.

Yes. And it added loads more layers for me to explore! I am pleased.

Jeff Winger!

Yay!

A. Jeff/Annie. I do not understand how this ship just came out of nowhere and brainwashed us all. It shouldn't work. They aren't alike enough or opposite enough for it to work. BUT IT DOES.

B. Jeff/Britta. You know, I'm sort of coming over to it a little, as long as the writers take their time with it. It's felt forced, and it doesn't need to be. The actors are both charming enough to pull it off. Just give them some time.

C. Jeff/The Professor Whose Name I Can't Remember. I don't know; I just didn't like her. Maybe she's too with it. She's not quirky enough. I think he needs someone who will appreciate his personality while pushing him to be more. I don't think she'd do that.

D. I have no idea what the popular opinions are. I want to see more Jeff/Abed BFFness (without Abed neglecting Troy, of course), and more Jeff/Shirley gossiping. Those two are hilarious together.

E. Pierce. Yeah. Hee!

Edmund Pevensie!

And since the shippy questions are kind of unfair on his part, feel free to ramble about your fannish Edmund anything :p

Usually I'm not a huge fan of memes, but this one was great, esp re:Veronica Mars.

I like memes because they give me an actual reason to ramble on and on about my own opinions. ;) But I'm glad you enjoyed!

Yeah, not so much with the shippy. But, sure! I can ramble!

Let's stick to two main topics of conversation:

1.) I blame Edmund for my redemption fetish (well, that and I'm Christian. It's kind of a thing we do, you know?). The Narnia books were always just sort of there--I don't remember a time without them, though they weren't my favorite. But I really do think that Edmund started my obsession.

Now, I have a very specific redemption obsession. I can't stand Angel's version: brooding and feeling sorry for himself. I like the kind that's accompanied by a love of life (see: Spike, Aeryn Sun, Tony Stonem, etc.). I like it when the redemption matures a character but doesn't weigh them down. To me that's Edmund, and that's what I love.

And it's been years since I've read Voyage of the Dawn Treader, though it was my favorite for a long time (and still might be), but I remember him understanding Eustace, too. And I love that.

2.) Let's talk about this kid named Skander Keynes. Let's talk about how awesomely cast he is. Let's talk about the first movie where he was little kid snarky and pretty selfish and a jerk to his sister but you still cared about him. And let's talk about the second movie where he had like six lines but was still BY FAR the biggest bad-ass in the movie. Let's talk about how whenever he was onscreen, I got so excited I wanted to squeal. And let's talk about how I want to rewatch the movie a hundred times (which I haven't done!) and just fast-foward to the parts he's in. Because he is awesome. Like, definition of awesome.

And how I need to find an OTP crossover pairing for him. You need to get on that. I trust your creativity to find the perfect girl for him. GO!

I blame Edmund for my redemption fetish (well, that and I'm Christian. It's kind of a thing we do, you know?).
Oh, I am too. Though I found the books a little sledgehammer-y at times (I will always love a story over its symbolism and I thought Lewis could be too heavy with the latter), but the thing about Edmund? He carries off the message while managing to be a lovable, realistic (most three-dimensional, in my opinion) character. How can I not looove?

I can't stand Angel's version: brooding and feeling sorry for himself. I like the kind that's accompanied by a love of life
…and that’s why I don’t ever see Edmund as being Angel-emo and cursing the world, post Narnia! I think back on all his lines and moments, and ‘love of life’ is absolutely right.

it was my favorite for a long time (and still might be), but I remember him understanding Eustace, too.
Same here—first one I read and still my favorite( And my nine year old self fell hard, making Edmund one of my longest fangirled characters.)
Speaking of redemptions, Eustace is my second favorite. I will be really annoyed if that “You were only an ass but I was a traitor” scene is not in the film.

Let's talk about the first movie where he was little kid snarky and pretty selfish and a jerk to his sister but you still cared about him.
Oh, exactly! Jeering and sulking and all, but still ridiculously hard not to sympathize with.

And let's talk about the second movie where he had like six lines but was still BY FAR the biggest bad-ass in the movie.
Ffff, the whole no-lines thing annoyed me because they kept them to his siblings and I thought they shafted him a lot to give way for Peter and Caspian’s man-wangst (sorry, I have…issues with their characterizations :/). BUT HE WAS STILL AWESOME. And that says a lot.

Crossovers, eh? Bit of a challenge but I’ll be on the lookout ;) (Rrrrr, Narnia, why do you have to be set in the 1940’s)

Gaius Baltar!

GAIUS! *loves*

A.) Gaius/Caprica. YES. The Agathons may technically be my OTP for the show just because I was gonna go after RDM if they didn't come out of things alive and together, but Gaius and Caprica Six have the best romance. I looove them. I nearly died when they were reunited in the finale. And I cried like a baby when he said the thing about knowing about farming. OH GAIUS.

B.) Gaius/Any Six at all. Because all Sixes are awesome. What's the one who was tortured--was that Gina? They could have been super-interesting together.

C.) Gaius/Kara. I still don't see what they saw in each other. At all. Why did they end up in bed? Soooo the opposite of each others' types, and then the show tried to play it off for a bit that Gaius might have actual feelings for her? Uh-uh. Don't buy it.

D.) Yeah, he's my favorite character. Even when the writers weren't quite sure what to do with him...my favorite. And he brought some much-needed levity to an otherwise completely grim show.

E.) Gonna echo

dollsome on this one: Laura Roslin. Despite the dream(s).

I need to get an icon of him sleeping behind the "Caprica" sign in the senate/parliament/I can't remember what it's called. Because I've seen them around, and they are awesome.

*basks in Gaius love*

Basically I agree with everything you say :)

How about Cordy? :D

HEY YOU!

Well, my personal opinion is that no one's good enough for Cordy, but I don't think that's what you're asking.... ;)

A. Cordy/Angel IN THEORY. I hatehatehate the execution with the whole fated love thing. If Cordy had kept on being his BFF who called him on his s*** (I don't like cussing! Don't laugh at me!) and teased him out of his brooding, I think they could have really worked. But the show ruined it.

B. I liked Cordy/Xander for that time in their lives. Unlike Xander/Anya, which almost made me deeply uncomfortable in regards to the uneven distribution of power, Cordy knew who she was and knew when to walk away. They were adorable while they lasted, though.

C. Cordy/Groo. SERIOUSLY, SHOW?

D. Cordy was made of awesome, but her character got ruined before S4. It started happening in S3 with Saint Cordy, when they took away all the awesome snarky, sometimes-selfish-ness that made her her. Combined with his treatment of Charisma Carpenter, I won't ever forgive Joss for it.

E. Wes. There was that...thing for about five seconds, but they were never in love. Just family. (AT LEAST UNTIL EVERYONE FORGOT SHE EXISTED IN S5. *is still pissed*)

I am bored at work.

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