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some very random thoughts about language
I am glad my native language is not one that has levels of formality built into its grammar nor has a vast and nuanced way to refer to every kind of relation you have (too fraught!) but I gotta say: nothing in storytelling makes me feral quite like when a character shows intimacy by lowering their language or choosing to refer to another character by an intimate form of their name or a certain relational designation/honorific OR when Character A hurts Character B and Character B reacts by raising their language or reverting to a more formal version of character's name/honorific??? INSANE-MAKING.
We just can't communicate that kind of intimacy in English, and there's no way to translate it, so if you aren't aware enough of the language (even if you don't speak it, like me) to know it's happening, you're missing out on SO much nuance and sometimes actual plot developments.
I had an entire plotpoint in one of my fics about whether Sungyeol was going to call Woohyun "hyung" or whether he'd use his name for him. The way that Shangjue is always "ge" to Yuanzhi on My Journey to You? And that Shangguan Qian is calling Yu Weishan "jiejie" in like the most ironic, suggestive way possible? WOW. And don't even get me started about Wangxian calling each other by their intimate names constantly in front of everyone's salad. Like you learn SO much about what people's relationships are to Wei Wuxian by what they call him. And some of that can be conveyed in translation, but not all of it.
And in Korean dramas, the banmal/jondaemal divide is so so so important! The switch always signifies something about the relationship, often something very important. But how on earth are translators supposed to convey this to an audience who doesn't know anything about the language? They try, and bless them for that, but it never quite works.
Sometimes, as in the drama I'm currently watching, the characters address it correctly. In one episode of The Guest, Yoon demands to know why Hwapyung is using informal language (banmal) with him. He's offended. In the next, Hwapyung demands to know why Kilyoung is using informal language with him. "How old are you?" he asks, a very relevant question. She ignores him. It's such fun. (I wanted Kilyoung to ask Yoon why he's using banmal with her in the next episode, just to complete the triangle...but Yoon is not using banmal with her. Alas for the triangle!)
But like, if you know something about Korean, you were aware of which level of formality they were using before and this just brings it out into the open. If you don't, this is brand new information and it might change how you perceive their relationships. Although I know there are even more layers of politeness and formality in Korean that I am unaware of, I am glad I can usually tell when someone's using banmal or jondaemal because otherwise I would lose out on so much.
As a person living in the world, I like speaking a relatively informal language. But as a writer? I am very jealous of those gradations of intimacy that can be conveyed through language. Do I like a more egalitarian approach for day to day living? Yes, but you do lose something for sure.
We just can't communicate that kind of intimacy in English, and there's no way to translate it, so if you aren't aware enough of the language (even if you don't speak it, like me) to know it's happening, you're missing out on SO much nuance and sometimes actual plot developments.
I had an entire plotpoint in one of my fics about whether Sungyeol was going to call Woohyun "hyung" or whether he'd use his name for him. The way that Shangjue is always "ge" to Yuanzhi on My Journey to You? And that Shangguan Qian is calling Yu Weishan "jiejie" in like the most ironic, suggestive way possible? WOW. And don't even get me started about Wangxian calling each other by their intimate names constantly in front of everyone's salad. Like you learn SO much about what people's relationships are to Wei Wuxian by what they call him. And some of that can be conveyed in translation, but not all of it.
And in Korean dramas, the banmal/jondaemal divide is so so so important! The switch always signifies something about the relationship, often something very important. But how on earth are translators supposed to convey this to an audience who doesn't know anything about the language? They try, and bless them for that, but it never quite works.
Sometimes, as in the drama I'm currently watching, the characters address it correctly. In one episode of The Guest, Yoon demands to know why Hwapyung is using informal language (banmal) with him. He's offended. In the next, Hwapyung demands to know why Kilyoung is using informal language with him. "How old are you?" he asks, a very relevant question. She ignores him. It's such fun. (I wanted Kilyoung to ask Yoon why he's using banmal with her in the next episode, just to complete the triangle...but Yoon is not using banmal with her. Alas for the triangle!)
But like, if you know something about Korean, you were aware of which level of formality they were using before and this just brings it out into the open. If you don't, this is brand new information and it might change how you perceive their relationships. Although I know there are even more layers of politeness and formality in Korean that I am unaware of, I am glad I can usually tell when someone's using banmal or jondaemal because otherwise I would lose out on so much.
As a person living in the world, I like speaking a relatively informal language. But as a writer? I am very jealous of those gradations of intimacy that can be conveyed through language. Do I like a more egalitarian approach for day to day living? Yes, but you do lose something for sure.
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It's odd that I like it so much in fiction, but when I'm trying to speak a second language, it's a huge anxiety trigger for me; in that my native language is English so everyone is 'you' in my head and not 'du/ihr/Sie' or 'ti/chi' and I know that getting it wrong can cause offence but don't have the mental processing power to get the grammar and words in place as well as managing the formality level. I'll actively avoid unscripted/non-rote situations because I don't want the headache.
Still, in fiction -- and, possibly for native speakers, in RL -- it's a beautiful thing.
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Love it!
But yes, in real life, it is so anxiety-inducing! I totally agree.
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but, just as you said, when I once had the opportunity to translate a friend's English k-drama fic into Spanish, I absolutely ran with the ability to play with formality levels for maximum emotion.
I love this so much!
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