lirazel | (no subject)

Having a Mastodon conversation about CQL. There's a post getting reblogged (or boosted, as they call it there) by a lot of people about being sooooo confused at the beginning of the show.

And someone else responded to it with a (very good faith!) reaction of "Huh? Aren't you used to having worldbuilding/character stuff revealed as you move through the story?"

And I wrote this:

I think when you're brand new to an entire genre (as many, many CQL watchers were), you're unsure of how much you need to understand from the get-go. "X is confusing and Y is confusing--is this because it's the beginning and this will be revealed later? Or is it because I'm just not fluent in this genre? Am I missing something? Do I need to know what this means right now?" Which I don't think is an entirely unreasonable reaction.

I had had a similar experience years before when I first started watching Korean dramas & found that a lot of stuff that the narratives takes for granted, I didn't have any knowledge of. It took watching several shows to pick up on how the education system works or the different honorifics, things that gave nuance & color to a show. I was watching those early shows on a much shallower level than I have watched later shows--I'm picking up on so much more with later shows.

So when I came to CQL, my first Chinese drama, I was prepared for there to be a lot of cultural stuff that I'd have to learn & I had some idea of what those things might be.

But if I hadn't had a previous experience, I think I would have found it a lot more stressful trying to differentiate between "thing I don't understand because I'm encountering new characters & worldbuilding, but all will be revealed eventually" and "thing I don't understand because I'm watching something from a different culture."

There's a special kind of confusion that arises when you can't tell those two kinds of confusion apart, which I think was a lot of people's experience.

And I didnt say this over there, but:

I think this is one of the reasons the best foreign shows reward so much rewatching. Because when I rewatch CQL now, I know soooooooooo much more about the culture and the genre than I did on first rewatch, so I'm picking up all these hues of color that were totally invisible to me the first time through. And that's one of the great joys of encountering art from other cultures! You get to learn all that stuff, then go back and have an even deeper experience with the art!

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This was super interesting! I was thinking about the "thing I don't understand because I'm watching something from a different culture" thing recently, while I was rewatching the Indian movie "RRR". The first time I watched it, I loved it--the second time, I thought more closely about the caste system and it made me a bit uncomfortable, but at the same time, I feel that maybe I have no right to say this, because it's not my culture and I don't have enough knowledge, you know?

Also, I'm thinking that "a different culture" can mean so many different things, right? Even when you watch something made in your own country, your age, social class, life experience, political affinity, etc. can sometimes make it seem almost foreign, like you're approaching it from a different culture altogether. There's a recent local movie about the trial to the military juntas, which has received a lot of positive reviews--and while I don't think it was terrible, I felt that it was overly didactic and played it really safe, with a sort of beatification of that specific moment and its main players, instead of going for the grittier and uncomfortable, less simple reality.

Anyway, all this was to say that I definitely agree with you, learning and then going back for a rewatch gives a deeper, thought-provoking experience!

The first time I watched it, I loved it--the second time, I thought more closely about the caste system and it made me a bit uncomfortable, but at the same time, I feel that maybe I have no right to say this, because it's not my culture and I don't have enough knowledge, you know?

Oh, that is so interesting! So interesting!

Even when you watch something made in your own country, your age, social class, life experience, political affinity, etc. can sometimes make it seem almost foreign, like you're approaching it from a different culture altogether.

True true!

Yes! I totally agree with all of this! CQL was my first Chinese drama as well, and confusion of all the cultural stuff I didn't know was definitely a factor for me. Though I played on easy mode by reading a WHOLE lot of fanfic first so I knew what was going on with the plot and characters from the get-go - which meant that my main confusions were just culturally related, and I could focus on trying to figure that stuff out. I should really rewatch the show now that I have more experience and understanding.

I remember having similar issues when watching Yuri on Ice too. I'd never watched any anime before, or any other Japanese media besides, and I could tell while watching it that I was finding it confusing in ways it was not intended to be confusing, but I couldn't interpret any of it because I didn't have that familiarity. I've still not seen any anime besides Yuri on Ice and tbh I found it almost as confusing on second watch as first watch! I think there must be tropes of how anime works that I just don't know how to read.

Though I played on easy mode by reading a WHOLE lot of fanfic first so I knew what was going on with the plot and characters from the get-go - which meant that my main confusions were just culturally related, and I could focus on trying to figure that stuff out.

That's so interesting!!!

It really is a show that rewards rewatching, imo.

I could tell while watching it that I was finding it confusing in ways it was not intended to be confusing,

THIS!

I think there must be tropes of how anime works that I just don't know how to read.

I can easily believe this.

I actually get into a lot of fandoms by reading the fic first! I find it much easier to watch a tv show when I have additional context and already have all the important characters and their names clear in my head, plus enjoying the fandom means I have more motivation to actually watch a dang show because I find tv-watching takes a lot of energy so I don't do it much. And also, I really enjoy the process of figuring out a new canon by reading fics and triangulating what must be behind them all, tbh!

That is not something I think I'd ever want to do, but that's cool that you figured out that it works for you--and I get the appeal of triangulating stuff!

honestly I just started in fandom like this as a teen without ever considering that it might be weird!

a lot more stressful trying to differentiate between "thing I don't understand because I'm encountering new characters & worldbuilding, but all will be revealed eventually" and "thing I don't understand because I'm watching something from a different culture."

I never got past the first four (?) episodes of Untamed, and I think this right here (very well said and good on you for gently pointing it out) is part of the reason.

Okay, this is not to put pressure you on at all but I am inspired by your comment and have started a cheat-sheet post for the show with basic worldbuilding, characters, and a summary of the first few episodes. Not that you have to use it (you do not!) but I think there are other people who might benefit from it! And I just want to!