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So I rewatched Rogue One to prepare for Andor and I just wanted to jot down a few thoughts here. I had only seen it once before and all of my previous impressions held true:
+ It is without a doubt the best Star Wars film outside the original trilogy. (It's technically a better movie that RotJ, too, but it doesn't have the fun-and-nostalgia factor going for it. It doesn't have the pulp-y joyfulness of the original trilogy. Which is fine! It's not trying to! But that's why I don't find it as lovable.)
+ It's well-written, well-acted, and beautiful to look at
+ I love the tight focus and think that more sci-fi offerings would benefit from the narrowed scope
+ It's the only movie in the world that has a major action scene built around the use of an archival vertical storage retrieval system and for that alone it deserve accolades
However! I don't feel fannish about it! And that comes down to one thing and one thing only:
I want it to be a found family movie and it doesn't have the time to be that. (For me.) These people don't know each other long enough to build up the bonds I want them to have. They literally don't have the time! They know each other for like three days! I can believe that this makes them feel close in the adrenaline right before the big climax, but I don't believe that they actually are.
In order for me to buy into found family dynamics, there's got to be downtime. There's got to be the squabbling and the inside jokes and the "are we really having this discussion again?" kinds of scenes. And this is an action movie that simply does not have the space for that.
Basically, if this had been a limited series with time for all that stuff, it would have been my catnip. But that's not what it was doing and it's not what it was trying to do. It's very effective at what it's doing, and it's a good movie. It's just not my movie.
+ It is without a doubt the best Star Wars film outside the original trilogy. (It's technically a better movie that RotJ, too, but it doesn't have the fun-and-nostalgia factor going for it. It doesn't have the pulp-y joyfulness of the original trilogy. Which is fine! It's not trying to! But that's why I don't find it as lovable.)
+ It's well-written, well-acted, and beautiful to look at
+ I love the tight focus and think that more sci-fi offerings would benefit from the narrowed scope
+ It's the only movie in the world that has a major action scene built around the use of an archival vertical storage retrieval system and for that alone it deserve accolades
However! I don't feel fannish about it! And that comes down to one thing and one thing only:
I want it to be a found family movie and it doesn't have the time to be that. (For me.) These people don't know each other long enough to build up the bonds I want them to have. They literally don't have the time! They know each other for like three days! I can believe that this makes them feel close in the adrenaline right before the big climax, but I don't believe that they actually are.
In order for me to buy into found family dynamics, there's got to be downtime. There's got to be the squabbling and the inside jokes and the "are we really having this discussion again?" kinds of scenes. And this is an action movie that simply does not have the space for that.
Basically, if this had been a limited series with time for all that stuff, it would have been my catnip. But that's not what it was doing and it's not what it was trying to do. It's very effective at what it's doing, and it's a good movie. It's just not my movie.
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These people don't know each other long enough to build up the bonds I want them to have. They literally don't have the time! They know each other for like three days!
This relies on assuming that hyperspace travel happens as fast as we see it, when in the OT it still takes days (an unknown number, but days) for Luke and Obi-wan to reach Alderaan from Tatooine. Since the characters *do* bond (including through shared trauma) and the hyperspace travel time is fuzzy, a lot of folks have inferred that they *did* spend more than a few days together, at least. And of course, plenty of stories are built on people glomping onto each other tightly very quickly, including Jack and Rose in Titanic, Mako and Raleigh & co in Pacific Rim, Heloise and Marianne in Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Sarah and Kyle Reese in Terminator, etc etc etc (I just went through a bunch of my icons, so my sample is biased) - but I totally get how folks' mmv on this point. Much of the early fic for this movie reminds me of the early HP fic in terms of what its focus was - a lot was Missing Moments oriented, filling in the gaps between what we saw. Iirc, the only tight timeline has to be Eadu and Yavin IV, because the Rebel fighters launch from Yavin IV and get there while the action is still happening with Team Rogue One on the ground. Other than that, everything is up for interpretation!
It's well-written, well-acted, and beautiful to look at
My darling beloved movie! What is your favorite scene? Who is your fave? I need details!
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This is actually a point of controversy in the film - wth is the Empire doing with its organization system?! It has no order! Add it to the list of their offenses!
Oh, on a literal, worldbuilding level, it makes zero sense! It's just so rare to see archives (and RRSes!) in media that it delights me nonetheless!
This relies on assuming that hyperspace travel happens as fast as we see it, when in the OT it still takes days (an unknown number, but days) for Luke and Obi-wan to reach Alderaan from Tatooine. Since the characters *do* bond (including through shared trauma) and the hyperspace travel time is fuzzy, a lot of folks have inferred that they *did* spend more than a few days together, at least.
This definitely makes sense, but also: I don't get to see it! So it doesn't exist for me! You know this is how I feel about like 80% of onscreen romances: it's inferred that they spend time together, but I don't buy it because I don't see it. But also: this is very much a me thing!
Much of the early fic for this movie reminds me of the early HP fic in terms of what its focus was - a lot was Missing Moments oriented, filling in the gaps between what we saw.
Oh, I bet!
I mean, I'm initially drawn to Cassian but that probably is just my innate love of Diego Luna from, like, Y Tu Mama Tambien days. If we saw more of Bodhi (Bhodi?), I could woobify the hell out of him.
A favorite detail: how good the casting for Jyn's parents is. She definitely looks like she could be their child.
This is probably a weird choice for favorite scene, but I think my favorite is how they have this big meeting where the brass is like, "This is too risky, we're not doing this," and then literally the next scene is this group of people going, "So we're doing this, right?" I just love how there's no hesitation. They just go right out and disobey orders. I love that.
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*cackling delightedly*
but I don't buy it because I don't see it.
And I totally get that! I also saw this movie a [redacted] number of times in theaters, in 3 different states, and watched all the BTS material and interviews with the actors, so I spent a lot of time with the characters up front. There were a lot of discussions about how long hyperspace travel takes early on in the fandom, but it's only the ST that actually makes hyperspace travel look like *snaps fingers* that fast. Iirc, even the EU books (our EU books) let hyperspace travel take a longer time. This has no bearing on your movie experience, but just fyi context for how people thought about it later.
I am like, shockingly, zero-percent surprised Cassian is your fave with Bodhi a runner-up. My friend Elizabeth and I talk about how like, for me, Jyn is my fave by a hairs-margin with Cassian as #2, and for her it's exactly flipped, but we're both over-the-moon about them both. I love all the mains though, which is a rarity. Usually there's an odd (usually) man out.
A favorite detail: how good the casting for Jyn's parents is. She definitely looks like she could be their child.
I actually have to remind myself sometimes that the two kids playing young!Jyn aren't young!Felicity. The casting for this movie was *chef's kiss*
They just go right out and disobey orders. I love that.
I think you're talking about the hangar scene? In my icon? It's that or the scene where they realize Rogue One went to Scarif and Mon Mothma hears that Admiral Raddus is already on his way to help and just has this utterly pleased look :D
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Oh, yeah, I totally get how people who are willing to do more of the filling-in-the-blanks than I do could get there with the found family dynamics. There's really good bones there!
I am like, shockingly, zero-percent surprised Cassian is your fave with Bodhi a runner-up.
Haha! I'm actually sort of surprised that I don't love Jyn most but I feel like her arc is a bit too abrupt for me? Like it makes sense to me intellectually, but not so much on an emotional level. (Also, and this is 1000000% my opinion and I hope causes you no pain whatsoever, but Felicity Jones has never really worked for me in anything but Northanger Abbey? I don't think she's bad, by any means, but we just don't vibe. If some actress I adored had played that role, I would probably be way more into the character.)
But I agree with you that all of the mains are really solid!
Yup, the one in your icon, although I do love Mon Mothma looking so pleased when they figure out what's going on!
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Absolutely not! I have actors like that myself. If you don't vibe, you don't vibe.
I'll be curious to hear your Andor thoughts, because I'm getting the very strong sense that they made Cassian's arc parallel Jyn's even more, but in a way where even I - a 'the mirror hurts' stan - am like "he's been in the Rebellion since he was 6 years old! he's the true believer who brings others to the Cause! they don't have to be carbon copies of each other!" and am obviously approaching this with uh, six years of emotional investment so may not be super objective here.
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I've only seen two episodes, but if you're invested in the idea of him having been a principled freedom fighter from childhood, they definitely retconned that. He's hated the Empire since then, maybe, but they really have rewritten his story. I think it's going to be a good one, but it's not the one they implied in the film.
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....yeah, that's really going to hold me back. Glad other people can enjoy it though!
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+ It's well-written, well-acted, and beautiful to look at
+ I love the tight focus and think that more sci-fi offerings would benefit from the narrowed scope
Both these things make me think that you'll like "Andor". I really hope so! :D
+ It's the only movie in the world that has a major action scene built around the use of an archival vertical storage retrieval system and for that alone it deserve accolades
XD XD XD It absolutely does!
As for the found family thing, I think it has that vibe, for sure. But I agree with you in that it would have been lovely to see more of it. I find it believable, and that's exactly why I want to see all those missing scenes!
These people don't know each other long enough to build up the bonds I want them to have.
Maybe except for Chirrut and Baze? <3 "Look for the Force and you will always find me"... *cries forever*
Basically, if this had been a limited series with time for all that stuff, it would have been my catnip.
I would love it if the rest of the RO characters would get their own prequel series, because the slower, more contemplative mood of "Andor" really worked, and I want more of it!
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Agreed. I don't think it's lacking in its lack of pulpiness. It's just different! And yet, because of the hope aspect, it does fit the universe!
Maybe except for Chirrut and Baze? <3 "Look for the Force and you will always find me"... *cries forever*
Oh, yes, I love their bickering old marrieds dynamic! I buy them!
Looking forward to Andor!
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Soooooo much of whether a film turns out decent or not seems to be sheer luck. It's kind of bonkers when you compare it to something like writing or painting or that kind of artform.
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I also agree with Jamelle Bouie's assessment in The New York Times:
‘Andor’ Is the Best Star Wars Anything in Quite a While where he write of Rogue One
We don’t actually get a sense of the interior lives of any of the characters, who, we know as an audience, are on the way to their doom. There’s no real attempt to deal with the psychology of rebellion. The movie is exciting, but I don’t think it quite works.
That said, I love the idea of a scientist deliberately building a vulnerability into the Death Star, and I love the archival vertical storage retrieval system! But I agree with Bouie that Rogue One doesn't really work.
Andor on the hand, is excellent. There's some things I have issues with (of course, I always have issues with something!) - but as Bouie explains, Andor puts "character at the forefront of the story". It's a fascinating series, and I will be very interested to hear what you think of it!
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Whereas only 3 episodes in, Andor is doing really well with the character stuff, and I'm eager to see more.
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he was thrilled for me to have friends on here who are into star wars so he can have me read about yall's views and comments and such. he would probably talk your ear off for hours if you two met in person. hahah. and i would just be sitting there like: ◉ℇ◉
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i cannot wait to see our son watch the movies for the first time and to experience it through his eyes. i think that's when i'll finally get into it more. i don't know why, but my ADHD makes it so terribly hard to watch things even if i want to. so regardless of having them played in front of me thousands of times, even a lot of those times i was trying to pay super close attention, i just don't feel like i've had a good experience with it. i hate some of my neurodiverse ways. hahaha. it makes a lot of things not go the way i want them to.
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and it has been a HUGE hit in our house. i feel very proud of myself, honestly. Bb8 is so cute.
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I still remember watching this scene in the cinema with my husband (he's also a librarian) and we turned to each other and said: still an easier system to navigate than [our employer's discovery system]! (At this point the new discovery system had been recently implemented, and it had been implemented badly, and it struggled to handle a network of over a hundred libraries which is not fully joined up, and which historically had enabled individual libraries to catalogue their own books separately, leading to a chaotic mess of five different records for the same book, etc.)
I watched Rogue One in the cinema about a week after the 2016 US election, and it really helped me cope with the raw emotions of the situation — even the fact that the characters aren't a proper found family felt resonant with the politics of that moment: they didn't know each other well enough to be a found family, but they knew the situation was serious enough that they had to trust each other regardless.
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they didn't know each other well enough to be a found family, but they knew the situation was serious enough that they had to trust each other regardless.
is so important and works well in the movie. It's just the kind of thing that makes me fannish.
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YES IT IS AND I LOVE IT FOR THIS -- I work with LTO tape on the daily and when we got to the big library I started more or less vibrating with joy: yes! this is what it's like! this is representation on the big screen!!! the file's too big to make it out over streaming data OF COURSE IT IS, IT ALWAYS IS, SUFFER AS I SUFFER!!! just me cackling in the movie theater while my tolerant friends squinted over at mild concern. what? they're all going to die because the big tape robot got confused about a unique identifier? WELL IT DO BE LIKE THAT SOMETIMES --
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