lirazel | (no subject)

brithistorian is having this discussion over at his journal, but I wanted to ask my friends as well:

When you write fiction, how much planning/outlining do you do before you start? Do you plot extensively? Do you fly by the seat of your pants?

Here's what I said:

Plot is so hard. I find characterization, worldbuilding, etc. pretty intuitive, but I am incapable of coming up with more than the vaguest plot before I start writing. Any plot that ends up existing emerges as I write.

That said, I usually have a vague idea of where I'm headed with the story--both some kind of emotional arc and a vague idea of where the plot is going. But the details of it? HA! I have learned that I have to just start writing because if I wait until I figure out a plot, I will never start.

In thinking about it, I have to daydream enough beforehand to have a really good sense of the world and the characters and the atmosphere I'm trying to create. This is a kind of planning. But it's not plotting. Plotting is a different thing, and it's not really a thing I do.

I'll use an example of the fics I've written recently.

With my Wen Qing fic, I knew this before I started writing: Jiang Yanli goes to Nightless City for the indoctrination. She has an attack of her illness and Wen Qing treats her and they begin to bond. I knew I wanted to explore chronic illness, the relief of having a doctor actually listen to you, the emotional toll of being an eldest sister, and moral dilemmas. I knew I wanted Wen Qing to ultimately decide to help the sect heirs bust out of Nightless City. I knew I wanted to lay the foundation for a Wen Qing/Jiang Yanli relationship. I knew I wanted Wen Qing to be enthralled by Jiang Yanli's everything and yet be very resistant to that.

And that's it. That's all I knew when I started. So I had some firm ideas about themes and characterization, but my plot was very sketchy (initial premise and where we end up). And that's pretty typical for most of my fics.

With my Benjamin January fic, I also knew what I was starting with: all the things that both

dolorosa_12 and I are most interested in (it was such a joy writing a fic for someone who has exactly the same interests and investments in the canon as I do!!!).

Things I knew before I started: the focus would be on Minou and Chloe solving a mystery together. They would both use their very different talents to do so (Minou's personal connections and emotional intelligence; Chloe's unflappability and scholarly intelligence). They would somehow save another woman from a terrible situation, but, in keeping with Hambly's world, it wouldn't solve the heart of the injustice that was being committed.

From there, I basically just started writing and wrote myself into a plot. And I've found that's what I have to do: just start writing. The plot will emerge eventually, and it will need to be refined a great deal in subsequent drafts, but it will emerge.

But I know that some people plot extensively--outlining and such--before they start. Some people can't even start at all until they've got it all outlined! So tell me about your approach--I really want to know!

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I’m the same as you! With original stuff, usually I am struck by a vague, vague idea and a character voice, and I have to just start writing and follow that, and that’s the only way I can really have any plot epiphanies. (You’d think that would motivate me to start writing more. NOPE!)

With fic, I have a hard time even pinning down what motivates me to start writing it. I think usually just the urge to spend more time with characters I love! Since I very seldom write any fic that’s longer than a few thousand words, I think my philosophy there is definitely “No plot, just vibes.”

I think my philosophy there is definitely “No plot, just vibes.”

Some of the most enjoyable fic can be described just this way! I think there are so many needs to be met in fic--like when you want a character to get a chance to really develop or when you want to fix a horrible plot point. But just spending time in that world with those characters is such a good thing that fic does!

Hmpf.... Yes and no?

So with some fic I first brainstorm a page or so that is random facts and ideas on canon by longhand and then fic slowly forms from that. Sometimes it stays there and never goes anywhere though.

With other fic, I have a few random ideas and just start somewhere and see where it's going. I do need to know the end relatively soon after starting though, because otherwise I'll just meander around and it'll never go anywhere.

Sometimes I know the general idea where it's going but it's only developing while writing. I try to have an idea of the next scene or so but nothing much beyond that and I make notes on where it's generally going below the text I'm currently writing.

Now with the frogs, I know that it's a 5+1 story and which chapters I need to write so that's "planned".

But I think if I made a detailed scene-by-scene plan I would maybe not finish it, because I'm primarily writing for myself, so if I plan it out in super close detail then I have basically written it already so what's the point.

Not sure this makes sense at all.

Yes! I feel like I used to write a lot more fic with that sense of "I AM GOING TO RIGHT THIS WRONG THAT CANON DID," but nowadays when I'm sort of less deeply involved in fandoms, it tends to be more just a sense of "Hey, I want to hang out with the fine characters of Gilmore Girls!"

I love that, actually. And I think your readers love it too.

Oooh, it's interesting that it varies from fic to fic! Thank you for sharing!

But I think if I made a detailed scene-by-scene plan I would maybe not finish it, because I'm primarily writing for myself, so if I plan it out in super close detail then I have basically written it already so what's the point.

Absolutely.

I am what my zayde-advisor once called, in classic zayde fashion, a "vomit pruner." My "outline" is essentially a sprawling stream-of-consciousness wall of words that I then cut and trim and refashion with great prejudice. I can't tell how much it helps me relative to careful outlining; it's just how it goes.

I really connect with this approach. Whenever I've written longer-form stories, I've usually had a general setting, purpose, motives, and something I want for the characters (events, relationships) but plot? Plot emerges for me along the way.

I'm very similar in process! I can't outline either. I will try and think of, and maybe even jot down major beats before I wander too far in the wrong direction. But details, forget about it. My brain gets too uncertain about all the options, and then I don't write anything.

Edited 2022-02-03 16:34 (UTC)

Thank you for the question, I rarely think that deeply about my process. ^^;;

What rekishi said about not finishing something if it's planned out in too much detail because then what's the point makes so much sense to me. I tried writing out a super detailed outline for a story that actually involved "plot" and then stalled out so fast because I had already told the story to myself, so writing it felt like the most boring thing in the world. I pick at it occasionally but the momentum just vanished.

And yet writing a quick point form of the next scene before I take a break so that I have something to come back to also helps, so who knows?

Typically I start with a scene at the end (often a joke or an image) and a beginning, and struggle with a middle that connects the two. But I've only written short things too, so I imagine it differs with longer stories. I think it's interesting you know what the sort of themes are you want to touch on before you start writing. I feel like I'm often more comfortable with knowing what's underneath the surface of the story that I want to convey rather than having an actual idea of what the plot is - that comes after.

I think I'm very similar to how you do it!
I usually get an idea for a scene, that's how every fic I've written started - except for the one with the Junior's PoV, that was the only fic I've written pretty much chonologically, because it follows the CQL plot.

I write that scene, daydream about other scenes that might happen in this 'verse (and actually deciding on what setting I'm in XD) and write them down, too. And then this is usually where something like the vaguest sense of plot emerges. XD

I've basically started "seriously" writing fic because of CQL and consider myself quite the newbie. XD I've only written fluff and humour and often get inspired by a tumblr post or other, so that gives me a very general direction I want to go in. I'm also not heavy on plot. I would so love to be able to come up with a cool case fic plot or some political intrigue stuff etc., but I don't really have the imagination for it. Also, I tend to latch onto the atmosphere and feeling of the fic, on character interaction; lots of dialogue comes easy to me.

For one of my WiPs I've done an outline for the first time before writing much of it, because that thing has an actual timeline that should be consistent and I wanted to keep track of the little ideas I had for several of the characters.
Another WiP is getting rather long compared to my output so far (don't know how long because it's still all handwritten notes on pieces of paper... but there are a lot of pieces of paper!) and so I did an overview of which scenes I'd already written, what's missing, where I want it to go.

One of my friends pretty much plots it all out in short notes to see how long it might be. I just... can't do that. XD

I usually get an idea for a scene, that's how every fic I've written started

I have written many inspired in this way!

I've basically started "seriously" writing fic because of CQL and consider myself quite the newbie.

Welcome to the club!

Also, I tend to latch onto the atmosphere and feeling of the fic, on character interaction

Same!

One of my friends pretty much plots it all out in short notes to see how long it might be.

That is actually so impressive and I'm jealous!

Welcome to the club!
Yay! I didn't expect it to be so much fun for me. (*/ω＼*)

That is actually so impressive and I'm jealous!
I am, too. XD She has sooo many ideas all the time and mostly plots it out at least roughly before she starts writing. I can't work like that. (^_^;)