heeeeeeey, people!

[lirazel]

There's been a sudden explosion of discussions about gender role-reverals in the Buffy/Spike relationship on my flist. Which obviously I love. It has given me feelings about other pairings, too, and I am working on a picspammy post about favorite pairings that do a lot with gender reversals.

But I am so sure I'm going to forget something I love, so y'all should tell me what your favorite examples of this are. From anything: books, even. Movies. TV. Whatever. Just tell me! You might have a favorite that is also my favorite!

Comments

[snickfic]

Gen/Attolia? Because she's the one in the relationship with the most political power, and also she's the emotionally unavailable one?

I confess, this isn't a frame through which I generally think to look at ships. I look forward to your picspam!

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

Damon/Elena and Damon/Katherine, which is painfully predictable of me ;).

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

That's on my list! Though how I'm going to work it into a picspam, we shall have to see!

Honestly, Buffy and Spike created this for me. I never, ever thought of it before I got into Spuffy fandom. And now it's one of the ways I look at couples. Not the primary way, but it does add an extra level of enjoyment.

Is that baby!Sam in your icon? LOLZ.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I already have ~words~ written about Damon/Katherine! I didn't realize how hard I shipped them until pretty recently and now it's like ENDGAME OKAY??????

[gryfndor-godess.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing you already have this one: Katniss/Peeta, of course!

[muneca-brava.livejournal.com]

First thing I thought about was Zoe/Wash.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I had thought of them! I'm not sure I'm going to include them because I ship them more in theory than in execution? But I'm definitely considering them and probably most of what I like about them is the gender stuff, let's be honest.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yes yes yes! And not just in emotional ways, as in some of the pairings on my list: in very physical, concrete he-stays-at-home-and-she-goes-out-and-fights-the-badguys-and-brings-home-the-bacon kind of ways, too.

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

\o/

I'm writing a monstrous Damon/Elena post (well, currently I'm not writing, because I'm blocked and frustrated, but it's work in progress), and I want to include a section on gender role reversals :D. I think pocochina wrote a meta about how "bad boys" are, in fact, very feminine?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I am going to be drooling over that post!

And poco's post is a post of my SOUL.

[next_to_normal]

I can't remember if you watched Farscape, but John/Aeryn for sure.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I have only watched the first season and a half I think? So while I did LOVE them, I haven't seen enough of it to write about them in any way, unfortunately.

Also, green_maia has verbalized my issue with that show: I really love the characters just loads, but I'm often bored by the show itself. I don't feel the driving need to watch it once I turn it off, which is why it's probably been over a year since I've seen an episode.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Let The Right One In. Which doesn't so much reverse gender (and age) roles so much as throw them all up into the air, wave a sharp blade about, and then piece the bits together as they happen to fall.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

OH MAN I LOVE THAT MOVIE. Though I haven't seen that one since it came out on DVD here. I might be due for a rewatch....

[upupa-epops.livejournal.com]

If you wish to do some drooling now, Alex did some awesome analysis in comments here :).

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Other than Spuffy?

John/Aeryn on Farscape. She's the military soldier who wants no romantic relationships of commitment. He's 'wears his heart on his sleeve' guy.



Katniss/Peeta in The Hunger Games trilogy also works as a gender reversal (especially in the novels).

[elisi]

Doctor/River.


DOCTOR:
Don't let them build to full power!!

RIVER:
I know. There's a reason why I'm shooting, honey! What are you doing?

DOCTOR:
Helping.

RIVER:
You've got a screwdriver. Go build a cabinet!

DOCTOR:
That's really rude!

RIVER:
Shut up and drive!


(Also see all my comments to Shadowkat67... *g*)

[zombie_boogie.livejournal.com]

I see people have already mentioned Katniss/Peeta, which does do some interesting stuff especially with regards to their skill sets. I would also argue for Leslie/Ben, in particular relating to their break-up/reunion - how the writers allowed Ben to be shown to be more emotionally vulnerable than is generally seen in male characters, the fallout with their jobs, etc. I don't watch Up All Night regularly but there is a gender reversal there with the husband, Chris, acting as a stay at home dad and his wife Reagan going back to work.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

See above for my thoughts on those!

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I love them so much it's a little ridiculous.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I actually feel like Ben and Leslie are one of those couples to whom gender roles are of supreme indifference. Like, most of the time instead of really feeling reversals for them, I feel like they (and the writers) just don't care about gender at all. If that makes sense?

[laeria.livejournal.com]

FAVOURITE NARRATIVE KINK but I have surprisingly few straightforward examples. There's zillions of ships where I love certain gender-bendy aspects, but cannot say they are entirely gender-bent ships, you know? Like sex-obsessed Anya and feelings-Xander, or, you know, sex-obsessed Kaylee and bashful Simon... Also, I love that Rose saves the Doctor and finds the Doctor and is basically the proactive half on their ship while the Doctor pines and waits and cries over Harry Potter. But that's more like... stereotypically gendered feelings switched about, not, you know, a straight-up role reversal.

Probably my favourite example of 100% flipped ships are Briony and Eldric from Franny Billingsley's Chime! He's Beauty, cooking all the breakfasts and giving warmth and support, and she's the Beast.

[Also there's Gwen and Rhys from Torchwood, definitely. The only aspect of that show that I liked.]

Alsoalso, there's Jaime and Brienne in ASoIaF, but I can't remember if you've read the books, so I don't wanna spoil you.

[zombie_boogie.livejournal.com]

True! And in a way I find that even more refreshing than a simple reversal. I feel kind of the same way about Brad and Jane - there is a little bit of playing with gender roles, and some adherence to traditional roles, but mostly a whole lot of just being.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Season 1 is unfortunate because, unfortunately, vast loads of it is not good.

But if you don't mind being spoiled, I'll summarize what made the pairing work....

John starts out all white-hat scientist but he devolves into a black-leather clad anti-hero as he falls apart. Spectacularly.

Aeryn, at first unwillingly torn from her culture, eventually has to look back and realize that her culture... was monstrous.

In Season 2 we find out that Aeryn was a Peacekeeper to the bone. There are atrocities in her past. She used to be 'one of the bad guys' (this is illustrated when Pilot realizes that she was one of the soldiers who killed Moya's original pilot). And we get the 'flashback' to her lover, who was working against the Peacekeepers. She had been -- as close as she could be -- in love with the guy but had ratted him out to the Peacekeepers... for a promotion. The guy had been executed because of her.

In the meantime, John's PTSD from having been torturedin Season 1 grows worse until it's discovered that Scorpius literally placed something inside John's brain. John goes insane (seriously)and ... murders Aeryn.

Dvestated decides to have the implant removed even though it will most likely leave him a vegetable. John is never quite the same again. He's always just a bit 'crazy' from then on out. Even the removal of the implant didn't 'fix' the problem. It was always there... lurking.

Aeryn is resurrected by Zhaan. Zhaan actually sacrifices her life to bring Aeryn back, so, unsurprisingly Aeryn has survivor guilt.

John ends up being...well... cloned(?) (I guess) and there are two identical Johns (we are never told who was the original.) and through various circumstances the crew is separated for most of Season 3. One John ends up with Aeryn while she is being hunted by a Peacekeeper assassin... who happens to be her mother. Yes, her mother is forced to take the assignment, but she also believes that having Aeryn had ruined her life and career. She's seriously going through with the assassination. This ends in a confrontation where Aeryn's mother is 'killed.' In the emotional aftermath, Aeryn finally opens up to John and they get together...but then have to go be heroes and save the universe.

John is killed. (Aeryn has conflicted feelings. There's anger in her over John 'playing hero' and dying). She grieves... even though she knows that there's another John out there and that she'll have to face him. Oh, and then she has to kill her mother (who played a really nasty headgame on her before she died by making some guy impersonate Aeryn's father. This culminated in the events leading to Aeryn's mother's death).

On Moya, the other John has been off having (relatively lighthearted) adventures, looking forward to Aeryn coming back and being jealous of himself... only it's not himself any more because part of the story is that it was the John she had been through horrible things with that she had loved. So when Aeryn finally returned she froze the surviving John out. He wasn't 'her' John... but he was still John.

Watching John and Aeryn's relatonship implode at the end of Season 3 is really rather beautiful. You sympathize with both. She can't just switch her feelings on and off, and seeing this John is killing her. Her John died. And yet this was (a) John....who would make the same soprt of crazy choices. She can't do this again.

On the other hand, this surviving John has loved her all along. He's been lost her... to himself. How does he compete with that? He can't have lived what he didn't live. And he can't stop being himself.

Both characters are entirely in the right and make emotional sense, so the angst works. The youtube clip attached was the emotional climax of that arc in Season 3.

[snickfic]

I skipped most of what you said here because I still have ideas of watching the show relatively unspoiled, but even your point about John has me salivating. I have the same problem Lauren does, in that I just don't care, even though I want to. (I also am still in S1 - I just watched Rhapsody in Blue the other day.) But people keep saying how amazing the characters become, and I keep planning to watch, eventually.

Um, all of which is to say, the beginning of your comment reminded me again that I do really want to watch this show, so thank you!