![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
Fannish Friday: Canons that are too good for fandom
I know I've talked here before about my belief that the perfect sweet spot for a fandom is a canon that is really emotionally resonant and with good characterization, but that is...messy, in one way or another. That prompts you to fill in gaps, reconcile things, flesh things out, etc. That just begs you to leave your fingerprints all over it.
I talked then about how much of prestige television is just too good for fandom. Like, its texture is so smooth that there are no pores for my fannish feelings to cling to.
When you think of the Great Fandoms of Western Media History, aren't they all shows/books/movies that are very good but messy? Stars War and Trek, The X-Files, Buffyverse, Harry Potter, Doctor Who, Supernatural, even Lord of the Rings (in its own way) are so messy compared to the kind of television that we admire and even love but that doesn't spark fandoms.
Obviously all of those fandoms are sff, so there's also the element of worldbuilding to draw a fan in, which I think is really important but not required in a canon-that-spawns-fandom. It doesn't have to be the case. Something like The West Wing got way more fannish activity than, say, The Wire or The Sopranos. And The West Wing is, objectively, much messier than the latter two.
On the back of these ponderings, I am wondering if other people find this true and, if so, what media you absolutely love but have no interest in exploring fannishly.
For instance, I love Black Sails. SO GOOD. But I have no desire to read fic for it, for some reason. I can theoretically recognize that there's plenty to be explored in fic. But I just find the show satisfying enough that I don't need anything else. (Otoh, I do love good meta for it!)
I wonder whether I also feel intimidated by the craft behind the show--is it so well done that I don't feel capable of adding to it in any way? I have to ponder this more.
So yeah: my question today is: what media do you love deeply but have no fannish (in the transformative works sense) engagement with?
I talked then about how much of prestige television is just too good for fandom. Like, its texture is so smooth that there are no pores for my fannish feelings to cling to.
When you think of the Great Fandoms of Western Media History, aren't they all shows/books/movies that are very good but messy? Stars War and Trek, The X-Files, Buffyverse, Harry Potter, Doctor Who, Supernatural, even Lord of the Rings (in its own way) are so messy compared to the kind of television that we admire and even love but that doesn't spark fandoms.
Obviously all of those fandoms are sff, so there's also the element of worldbuilding to draw a fan in, which I think is really important but not required in a canon-that-spawns-fandom. It doesn't have to be the case. Something like The West Wing got way more fannish activity than, say, The Wire or The Sopranos. And The West Wing is, objectively, much messier than the latter two.
On the back of these ponderings, I am wondering if other people find this true and, if so, what media you absolutely love but have no interest in exploring fannishly.
For instance, I love Black Sails. SO GOOD. But I have no desire to read fic for it, for some reason. I can theoretically recognize that there's plenty to be explored in fic. But I just find the show satisfying enough that I don't need anything else. (Otoh, I do love good meta for it!)
I wonder whether I also feel intimidated by the craft behind the show--is it so well done that I don't feel capable of adding to it in any way? I have to ponder this more.
So yeah: my question today is: what media do you love deeply but have no fannish (in the transformative works sense) engagement with?
no subject
Not Western media, but this made me immediately think of The Langya List. It’s been cited as the best of its genre (historical Chinese drama), and for a very good reason. It also follows the source material (the book) surprisingly well. I loved it to bits but yeah, it’s intimidating.
no subject
it’s been cited as the best of its genre (historical Chinese drama)
Oh, interesting! I've heard that about Nirvana in Fire before, but I'm not familiar with this one. I will have to watch it sometime!
no subject
On the other hand, The Expanse is a show I get the impression a lot of people feel that way about, but I don't. That said, most of the Expanse fic I've written is about one specific non-canon pairing, with the exceptions being Star Trek crossovers. I love a bunch of the other characters but I'm not really interested in writing about them and do feel like canon mostly gave me what I wanted to see.
no subject
It's not intimidation so much as that the piece of media feels complete, perfect, and as if canon has said all that needs to be said about this particular story and those particular characters. It's happened a couple of times with BBC miniseries (the most recent being Happy Valley): I finish the show, feel overwhelmed with love and admiration for it, open AO3 to read fic (because of course that's the next logical step if you love a piece of media) and then realise that there is nothing further that anyone could say that would add anything to what we've already got in canon. I felt the same way about two of my favourite TV series, Deutschland 83 and Babylon Berlin, which are respectively a tragicomedic spy drama/family saga, and a political thriller/mystery series. My response to these shows surprised me — I thought I'd be yearning for casefic, since they're both infinitely flexible with these kinds of possibilities, but ultimately I realised no fanfic was going to scratch the itch and I'd be better off just rewatching them. They're both visually fantastic (and music features heavily in both; 1980s electro pop in the case of Deutschland 83 and dancier versions 1930s cabaret/jazz bar music in Babylon Berlin), so fanvids would definitely be very welcome, though!
On the other hand, I am fannish about Ada Palmer's Terra Ignota series but I'd never attempt fic due to the exceptionally complicated writing style and detailed worldbuilding, and I'm not interested in seeking out other fanworks as I assume any other fanwriter will struggle with these things too.
no subject
In answer to your question there are a ton of shows/movies etc that I love but don't feel fannish about. And it's not just whether they're 'messy' (although I think that's basically a per-requisite), but also that mysterious ~something.
F.ex. Promethia fell head over heels for 'Shadow and Bone', so I watched it, and although I could SEE what was there, it didn't do that thing that would have made me fall in love.
It's weird.
The Umbrella Academy is so close, I love it to pieces, it's rich and complicated and full of weirdness that can be explored and the characters are so amazing omg and yet I have never properly engaged fannishly.
Then there are shows like Russian Doll which are just perfect and need nothing adding.
no subject
The Expanse is another one I feel that way about! I have never sought out fanfic at all or wanted to write it! But I'm glad you've found a niche to write what you want in it!
no subject
Agreed! That was my favorite too.
It's not intimidation so much as that the piece of media feels complete, perfect, and as if canon has said all that needs to be said about this particular story and those particular characters.
Indeed! I love hearing about the shows that are like that for you! Thank you for sharing them!
but I'd never attempt fic due to the exceptionally complicated writing style and detailed worldbuilding, and I'm not interested in seeking out other fanworks as I assume any other fanwriter will struggle with these things too.
This is the other end of the spectrum from your example, but that's how I feel about Los Espookys. Every time there's an exchange where it's a nominated fandom, I toy with the idea of writing it, but I just know I could never be that specific kind of weird, so I will never write for it. And I don't want to read other people attempt to be that kind of weird and fail either.
no subject
but also that mysterious ~something.
Yes, it's very much like relationship chemistry! Why do you hit it off with a certain person? Certainly common interests and perspectives help, but there's always going to be something that's impossible to quantify!
The Umbrella Academy is so close, I love it to pieces, it's rich and complicated and full of weirdness that can be explored and the characters are so amazing omg and yet I have never properly engaged fannishly.
I agree with this! I think I love it slightly less than you do (though I love it a lot!) and on paper it seems like a great potential fandom, but I also have not sought it out.
Then there are shows like Russian Doll which are just perfect and need nothing adding.
Yup!
[eta] There's also this weird example, which is the movie The Vast of Night, which I lovelovelove and think is a perfect film. But I also had to write fix-it fic for a specific aspect of it, even though I wouldn't change the film for the world. Once I got that fix-it fic out of my system, I had no further interest in writing or reading it. And I get so many comments on that fic saying, "The movie is perfect! But I still liked your fic and needed it emotionally!"
no subject
I've been here a loooooong time.
Yes, it's very much like relationship chemistry! Why do you hit it off with a certain person? Certainly common interests and perspectives help, but there's always going to be something that's impossible to quantify!
I genuinely think that 'falling in love' is the best description. For properly falling for a show, I mean. It's the same focus/obsession.
I agree with this! I think I love it slightly less than you do (though I love it a lot!) and on paper it seems like a great potential fandom, but I also have not sought it out.
I have a lot of icons. And I have notes, but they have never been turned into a post. It's WEIRD.
Once I got that fix-it fic out of my system, I had no further interest in writing or reading it. And I get so many comments on that fic saying, "The movie is perfect! But I still liked your fic and needed it emotionally!"
I'm struggling to think of an example of my own (I blame being full of cold), but yes, I very much understand how that is a thing.
Although I once wrote Pern fic with the Buffy verse characters... We do odd things.
ETA: This whole thing reminds me of this article and the lack of fandom around Avatar (the James Cameron movies).
no subject
I think it partly depends on when I came across the canon, and if at that time it prompted something in me that had to be resolved via fic... no matter if it was messy or smooth, haha, because I've definitely come across canons that were very satisfying, and yet demanded fic... even if the fic ended up staying in my drafts folder forever! XD
And maybe the canon doesn't spark anything at one time, but it might later. For example, I always think of those weird 90s shows with a sort of magical realism-ish vibe (like Twin Peaks, Due South, or Northern Exposure...), and I wonder why I never wrote anything for them, because they are just my kind of thing to explore via fic, and yet I never did... well, not yet! So I also have to think about this more! ;)
These posts are always excellent, thank you! :D
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
Shows I love, but which are so exquisitely self-contained and emotionally complete that they inspired almost no fannish engagement: Nirvana in Fire, Slings and Arrows, Black Sails. The "almost" is important! I like reading S&A vignettes at Yuletide, and there's ONE novel-length NIF fic out there that I desperately needed, and now that somebody's written it, I need nothing else.
no subject
This isn't me being elitist, I just think I graph 'messy' and 'good' on different axes. Like, I've written Shakespeare fanfic, but I don't think I'll ever be able to write Austen fanfic -- but that's more in the sense that Austen requires a certain voice and a sense of Needing to Know Things about the era.
Or, I don't think I could write 'Rivers of London' or Dublin Murder Squad because the canons are very much about real places that I don't know enough about. Whereas 'The Expanse' and 'The Locked Tomb' are really complex but I could see myself writing them some day -- it's not like there's an external world that I would need to know about. (That said, as in all my fandoms, my interests in particular parts far exceeds my general understanding of the worldbuilding, and my ability to pick up and write about any given character might not go as well).
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
I genuinely think that 'falling in love' is the best description. For properly falling for a show, I mean. It's the same focus/obsession.
Having never fallen in love, I cannot speak to this, but it feels right!
I feel like I've read that article before, but I want to revisit it now.
no subject
True!
I think it partly depends on when I came across the canon, and if at that time it prompted something in me that had to be resolved via fic... no matter if it was messy or smooth, haha, because I've definitely come across canons that were very satisfying, and yet demanded fic... even if the fic ended up staying in my drafts folder forever!
This makes a lot of sense to me!
I always think of those weird 90s shows with a sort of magical realism-ish vibe (like Twin Peaks, Due South, or Northern Exposure...), and I wonder why I never wrote anything for them, because they are just my kind of thing to explore via fic, and yet I never did... well, not yet!
Those are good examples!
You're so welcome! I'm glad you enjoy them!
no subject
no subject
Haha! YES! A good way to put it!
Shows I love, but which are so exquisitely self-contained and emotionally complete that they inspired almost no fannish engagement: Nirvana in Fire, Slings and Arrows, Black Sails.
Yes to all of these! (Not that I've watched Nirvana in Fire yet, but I still get that vibe from it.)
there's ONE novel-length NIF fic out there that I desperately needed, and now that somebody's written it, I need nothing else.
Truly one of the best fandom experiences! God bless the people who write novel-length fanfic!
no subject
no subject
:D
If I get emotionally engaged by a piece of media, then I want fic about it.
Love that!
no subject
I should have an icon that says 'Fannish Elder' or something like that. *g*
Having never fallen in love, I cannot speak to this, but it feels right!
It's not quite the same, because you share your sudden obsession with a whole community, everyone contributing and re-enforcing the love. ♥
I feel like I've read that article before, but I want to revisit it now.
I think it's new, but there might have been others touching on that subject. It's weird though. Doing a quick AO3 search there are 2,383 works. Which is... nothing. Avatar the Last Airbender has 37,915.